Free solar panel discussion

Perry525

Cardew wrote: »

Unfortunately electricity from solar will not make the slightest bit of difference to the generating capacity required by the electricity industry.

They will still have to cater for the periods when UK ltd is drawing maximum load* - and that isn't when the sun is shining and PV panels generating.

* Those nice Froggies with their clean nuclear power help a lot as well;)

========================
There are a number of industries where in return for cutting usage at times of high demand they get a lower price, this too keeps the demand for new power at bay. For a couple of years or more there has been a reluctance on the part of the electricity generators and the National Grid to expand their capacity as, they cannot see overall demand coming any time soon.

Perry525

lil-smeg wrote: »

25 year agreement though, is a little long term don't you think? Specially when all the customer will have in return is a few light bulbs being powered and a free solar panel system!

===================
I do agree, also there are a lot of Universities and Chinese government departments, spending a lot of money researching more efficient power production and there have been breakthroughs that will come on stream in the next two years.
This is why the Government have a reducing tariff.
There have been some very good blogs written in this thread, most of the uninspiring possibilities have been aired.
I think that until some of the government controls are removed, especially those pertaining to the location of collectors, I for one will feel, that once again the Government are holding back on their best offer.

magyar

Cardew wrote: »

Unfortunately electricity from solar will not make the slightest bit of difference to the generating capacity required by the electricity industry.

They will still have to cater for the periods when UK ltd is drawing maximum load* - and that isn't when the sun is shining and PV panels generating.

* Those nice Froggies with their clean nuclear power help a lot as well;)

That isn't quite true. All forms of generation have a capacity factor, whther it's 80% like coal or 30% like wind. Overall, that amount of generation is fairly predictable.

I do agree that 1MW of solar doesn't displace 1MW of coal, but that is a different point.

Nang

Firstly Thanks :- I really appreciate your feedback

I will try to answer your questions below.

---

1. If the installer estimates an output of 3,300kWh pa how do you reach such an exact figure of £1,449.79 on the bar chart for for FIT payments?
If it was just FIT(as it states) that is an output of 3510kWh. Even if you add 1,650kWh x 3p it still doesn't add up.

Fits payments for retro fit system < 4.kw is 41.3p per kw hour. Export tariff is 3p for every KW you put back into the grid, but because the power companies have no way of measuring your exports they just assume you are exporting 50% of it. So you can just assume your fits payments are 41.3p +1.5p.

I used the income I generated in July and some government stats on collector percentage generated / month (takes June as 100%, July as 95% ect) to work out a income for each month. then added them all to get a total.

2. You haven't included any savings you make from the generated electricity you use in the house?

Going to have to be work in progress this one, but rest assured it will be small potatoes compared to FITS.

3. As your aim is to demonstrate "Is Solar Generation a good / viable investment for a home owner living in the UK?” an essential missing factor is how much you paid for the system. i.e. if you paid,say £17,000 you will surely need to factor in the lost compounded interest to meet your aim.

Is there any reason why the installation cost was not included? or is the £17000 savings in 10 years a hint?

Little bit uncomfortable with stating "what i paid for it" so to speak, but depending on who you go with a system like this will set you back circa 16 to 18K depending on who you go with.

4. To get over 20kWh on several days is excellent. As a matter of interest have you recorded or noted the maximum output your system achieved in kW(not kWh)

its on the site its max output is 3.81kw, on a sunny day in July it will provide this from roughly 11:30am to 2:00 pm.

Be interesting to see the figures later in the year[/QUOTE]

I will keep updating so please keep visiting.

Andy..

Poosmate

For a list of MCS installers in your area pleasetake a look here:

http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/Home+and+Business+Owners/Microgeneration+Installers/Solar+Photovoltaic


Good luck with your installation Nang and please keep us posted.

Poo

Cardew

magyar wrote: »

That isn't quite true. All forms of generation have a capacity factor, whther it's 80% like coal or 30% like wind. Overall, that amount of generation is fairly predictable.

I do agree that 1MW of solar doesn't displace 1MW of coal, but that is a different point.

Perhaps I haven't made myself clear.

The generating capacity from all UK sources(and interconnector) has to cope with periods of maximum load in UK.

There is a National Grid website that displays the total load in UK at 30 minute intervals:

http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Data/Demand+Data/

The peak demand for UK is on winter evenings when we are not producing any electricity from solar panels.(i.e. to use your terminology the generating capacity of the panels is zero(0.0%)

So it doesn't matter how much electricity the UK's solar panels produce during the day - even in winter they will produce a little - as they contribute nothing at periods of peak demand.

Therefore to cope with that peak demand, we must have sufficient generating capacity without considering solar electricity. So our xxx million solar panels do not help in any way to reduce our generating capacity.

magyar

Cardew wrote: »

Therefore to cope with that peak demand, we must have sufficient generating capacity without considering solar electricity. So our xxx million solar panels do not help in any way to reduce our generating capacity.

You make the assumption that the rest of our generating capacity is always available. The reality is that it isn't.

Cardew

Nang wrote: »

2. You haven't included any savings you make from the generated electricity you use in the house?

Going to have to be work in progress this one, but rest assured it will be small potatoes compared to FITS.

Agreed but the value of your exported 50% at 3p/kWh(approx £50) will be 'small potatoes' compared to the savings you should be able to make using generated electricity in the house - this could be £100 to £150.

4. To get over 20kWh on several days is excellent. As a matter of interest have you recorded or noted the maximum output your system achieved in kW(not kWh)

its on the site its max output is 3.81kw, on a sunny day in July it will provide this from roughly 11:30am to 2:00 pm.

Andy..[/QUOTE]

If you click 'quote' when replying you can comment on any points as I have done above in Red.

In Sheffield I doubt if you will ever reach the maximum output. I wondered if you had actually recorded the kW figures.

We are all supposed to get 'smart meters' over the next few years - certainly by 2020 - and they will have the ability to give a more accurate figure of what you export and what you use.

The probability with a large system like yours is that you will be exporting more than 50% of generated electricity. Even with small 1kWp to 1.5kWp systems people with export meters fitted reports only using 40% to 50% in the house.

Cardew

magyar wrote: »

You make the assumption that the rest of our generating capacity is always available. The reality is that it isn't.

Agreed we use the interconnector to cope, or reduce voltage/disconnect.

However how is that relevant to solar electricity generation? If some of our generating capacity is not available, how will zero output from solar panels at times of peak demand help?

I am simply stating that at times of peak demand, there is no output from solar panels.

i.e. if we need generating capacity of, say, 1,000,000MW to cope with UK's peak demand(on a winter evening), we will be getting nothing from solar to go towards that load.

So Britain could be covered with solar panels and we will still need generating capacity from other sources of 1,000,000MW.

The statement was solar panels will reduce the need for generating capacity - and they won't.

magyar

Cardew wrote: »

The statement was solar panels will reduce the need for generating capacity - and they won't.

Capacity, no - but that's fairly meaningless. They will reduce the requirement to use that capacity though, overall.

It's like owning two cars: your overall mileage might be the same but you'll use one of the cars less.