Free solar panel discussion

Cardew

lanstrom wrote: »

Is there anyway to trigger white goods to come on when there is a sustained instance of sunshine ?

Seems to me that just 'setting a timer' is a waste of time as after looking at some graphs it would be very hard to predict when to set it for, and I cant believe that it wouldnt be possible to get the surge in energy to kick off a 'special' switch or even an IP based system whereby the incoming datacapture could kick it off after a certain threshhold ?

The question of 'matching' PV output to in-house consumption has been raised many times.

There is I believe an appliance that is supposed to do this - but it is very expensive over £1,000.

It is not a simple as it seems. For instance you are belting out 3kW on a sunny day and it suddenly drops to, say 1kW. Which appliance does it switch off to reduce the load?

Don't forget virtually every appliance is working on a thermostat. So it might be that your oven is drawing zero at that point. Is it programmed to switch that off - and you get your dinner late? and hack off the wife?

Your washing machine on most cycles on draws power for the heater for a few minutes - the rest of the time it draws very little.

lanstrom

Cardew wrote: »

The question of 'matching' PV output to in-house consumption has been raised many times.

There is I believe an appliance that is supposed to do this - but it is very expensive over £1,000.

It is not a simple as it seems. For instance you are belting out 3kW on a sunny day and it suddenly drops to, say 1kW. Which appliance does it switch off to reduce the load?

Don't forget virtually every appliance is working on a thermostat. So it might be that your oven is drawing zero at that point. Is it programmed to switch that off - and you get your dinner late? and hack off the wife?

Your washing machine on most cycles on draws power for the heater for a few minutes - the rest of the time it draws very little.

Yup I see what you mean as I look out the window now. It was really sunny only 10 mins ago and now its chucking it down. Does any other country have weather as variable as ours ? ;-)

Joseph90_2

Oh dear I come on here at the request of Martin Lewis to share my PERSONAL experience of solar panels and I get rediculed by a bored forum stalker! But hey for a bit of fun let me answer some or all of your queries.

digitaltoast wrote: »

Well, to be strictly accurate, the loan was provided by Homesun, but it's all paid for by the large increases we're seeing in electricity bills, and that little old lady with the small roof facing the wrong way.

Now let me see, mmm no thats right, I have not paid a penny to Homesun and under no contractural obligation to do so over the next 25 years. Unless I have misunderstood you, ALL our electricity bills have gone up to pay for people like me having free solar panels fitted, in that case makes even more sense for me to have it then, seeing as how I'm paying for it already!

digitaltoast wrote: »

Do you mean 2500kw or 2500w? If the former, it would suggest one of the largest solar arrays in the UK. Or maybe you mean 2500kWh, in which case.. over what timespan?

Sorry not an expert, please see above in bold text.
Washing Machine

digitaltoast wrote: »

187 washes per year
EU energy label A-rated gives an average consumption at 40°C using a 2kg load to be 0.63 kWh
Total cost per year: £11.78, or 6.2p/wash.

Bothered...please see above in bold text.

digitaltoast wrote: »

Perhaps I'm reading too much into the word "timer", but don't they work on, um, time, not sunshine levels?
So if you went out and set your washing machine for mid-day and it was heavy cloud... then what? The heating part of the cycle would undoubtedly use more than the panels were producing, so you'd still be importing.

If you read my initial post it said that I had a reading during grey overcast which gave me sufficent power to run my washing machine.
Please see above in bold text.

digitaltoast wrote: »

What do you light your house with in the evening? Do you have any computers, games consoles or TVs on in the evening?

Now your being silly, you know far better than me as you have done spreadsheets that there is no power generated from panels during the evening, please see above in bold text.

digitaltoast wrote: »

Yes, it seems it is.

That was a bit insulting and personal, really no need!

digitaltoast wrote: »

But if saving probably an average of 3p/wash (if you're lucky) is worth renting your roof to a company for 25 years and making your house tricky to sell is worth it, then good luck.

One, I do not envisage us moving house in the near future. Two I also predict (I'm being brave here) that solar panels will be in such wide use in years to come that people will accept them more and who knows, cheaper home running costs no matter how slight could be attractive to some?

digitaltoast wrote: »

Incidentally, I'd assume you did a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet before tying yourself in to such a long and potentially extremely costly contract if you needed to bail out. Have you got any figures we can see?

£0, please see above in bold text.

grahamc2003

Incidentally, I'd assume you did a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet before tying yourself in to such a long and potentially extremely costly contract if you needed to bail out. Have you got any figures we can see?

Joseph90 wrote: »

£0, please see above in bold text.

Are you sure about that? It's a question I'm interested in the answer to - I've asked several times and no one has yet answered (except you, but I think you must have misunderstood the question).

btw, I know you have paid £0 to Homesun, so no need to state that again.

The question is - If you want to cancel the contract, what is the cost of doing so (according to your contract)? (Also, the answer isn't 'I will never want to cancel my contract' - the answer is in your contract somewhere, hopefully). If there are no escape clauses, then I think you are extremely brave!

Joseph90_2

Yes, I won't deny that it is a bit brave and we know we are acting as a bit of a guinea pig for lots of friends and aquaintences, as many many people have shown an interest in what we are doing, it seems there is a lot of interest out there on whether solar panels can actually save you money, which I believe is where the real interest is and to a far lesser degree their carbon footprint!

I do not have the contract in front of me here at work but the only escape clause is to buy the system back from Homesun, the price depreciates over the years, at the moment as it has just been fitted the cost would be just under £14k, after 5years it reduces about 10%, and further reductions from then on. It is a 12 panel system that generates during optimum conditions 2500kw, there is a reading we can utilise at any time and you will have seen on my earlier post what that gives when overcast, as a little pointer at 7:30 this morning it was over 600kw and at 8:30 over 1700kw (sunny).

To repeat (like I did with £0, but that was too apease digitaltoast) we have been brave (some on here obviously think foolish), but after a lot of thought and pondering, the main factors for us were that it is not going to cost us anything but there will be a saving, how much only time will tell? Due to the structure of our roof we were told a few years ago that we cannot have a roof conversion, so no deterrent there. Should we get a loan and claim the FITs ourselves, we thought that the problem with that is you cannot trust figures banded about of what return you will get and those payments are to be reduced in April 2012 and no doubt further still in years to come!

To sum up, only time will tell, but am convinced we will see more and more of these panels popping up and no doubt they will be forced into new building regulations (i.e. 1 in 5 new homes must have them?)

Dave_Fowler

Joseph90 wrote: »

Yes, I won't deny that it is a bit brave and we know we are acting as a bit of a guinea pig for lots of friends and aquaintences, as many many people have shown an interest in what we are doing, it seems there is a lot of interest out there on whether solar panels can actually save you money, which I believe is where the real interest is and to a far lesser degree their carbon footprint!

I do not have the contract in front of me here at work but the only escape clause is to buy the system back from Homesun, the price depreciates over the years, at the moment as it has just been fitted the cost would be just under £14k, after 5years it reduces about 10%, and further reductions from then on. It is a 12 panel system that generates during optimum conditions 2500kw, there is a reading we can utilise at any time and you will have seen on my earlier post what that gives when overcast, as a little pointer at 7:30 this morning it was over 600kw and at 8:30 over 1700kw (sunny).

To repeat (like I did with £0, but that was too apease digitaltoast) we have been brave (some on here obviously think foolish), but after a lot of thought and pondering, the main factors for us were that it is not going to cost us anything but there will be a saving, how much only time will tell? Due to the structure of our roof we were told a few years ago that we cannot have a roof conversion, so no deterrent there. Should we get a loan and claim the FITs ourselves, we thought that the problem with that is you cannot trust figures banded about of what return you will get and those payments are to be reduced in April 2012 and no doubt further still in years to come!

To sum up, only time will tell, but am convinced we will see more and more of these panels popping up and no doubt they will be forced into new building regulations (i.e. 1 in 5 new homes must have them?)

Hi Joseph90

I think you're dropping the odd 'k' in where there shouldn't be one, and that has caused confusion in your earlier post and could again in this one.

I suspect the system this morning under overcast conditions was producing 600W not 600kW, likewise in sunny conditions it was producing 1700W (1.7kW).

I'm not sure if your understanding of the FITs system of payments is correct - or I may have misunderstood what you were saying. In April next year, the FITs payments to systems installed after that date will be reduced below the current 43.3p / kWh, but once you are on FITs payments the FITs are linked to RPI and will only go down if there is negative inflation. Of course, the government may decide to change the link to RPI, but it was a 'promise' made at the start of the FITs program. But we're getting used to U turns at the moment!

Dave F

Nang

Joseph90 wrote: »

Oh dear I come on here at the request of Martin Lewis to share my PERSONAL experience of solar panels and I get rediculed by a bored forum stalker! But hey for a bit of fun let me answer some or all of your queries..

Hi Joseph

Your point is well made and I have said before that some folk who post here seem to get carried away and forget about common courtesy. In reference to rude / aggressive posters, I happen to think that if you can't make a point without being respectful you have already lost.

Having followed this thread through for some time and posted on fairly regularly I think you can broadly categorise posters into three groups.

1. Those who believe that an investment in alternative power is a good thing no matter who pays for it, or how much it costs.

2. Those who think that solar power is not an effective means of meeting our current future energy demands and resent the fact that the country is being asked to pay for it.

3. Folk who are somewhere in between, and think it may Not be the best plan ever but can see positive outcomes.

For the benefit of future posters I have observed that what seems to wind everyone up, is posters making claims without data to support it.

i.e "I have saved £400 already and I have only have the panels installed for a month."

The general consensus seems to be that folk come here to see if the free panels scheme is a good idea for them as a consumer. I would suggest that if people come on here to talk about their new free system and want a positive reception, they come armed with real data.

"My elect bill for quarter 2010 was £250, this year it's £190".

"I found the installer to be professional in general but slow to respond to queries"

This is still not conclusive of course but at least gives a real life experience backed by real data if appropriate.

Apologies if this comes over as a rant.

lanstrom

@ Nang
I'll be a number 3 (just for the record)!

As someone who is considering this massive investment I can honestly say that it's nice to see some pukka civilised conversation back in this thread. It was starting to get very silly and confusing for would-be purchasers like me.

I still dont have my answer to how much it is going to cost to get these panels removed in 25 years time though ;-)

Got a local company coming in next week to give me a quote on a system and will take it from there (and I SHALL be asking him the above question) !

furndire

Maybe a stupid question - what is it that deteriorates about the panels ( not the invertor) that would make people want to remove them after 25 years?

Dave_Fowler

furndire wrote: »

Maybe a stupid question - what is it that deteriorates about the panels ( not the invertor) that would make people want to remove them after 25 years?

Good question. The panels will still be generating power after 25 years. There is a gradual deterioration in the output over the years that may amount to 10% or so after 25 years. It is only the FITs that 'stops working'. Like most things that are constantly working there will be some falling off in efficiency, be it due to crystal degradation of the glass covering becoming cloudy due to the etching of the surface by the weather.

Dave F