Free solar panel discussion

grahamc2003

M4ximillion wrote: »

Yes, im delighted:D. Because of my free system ive reduced my consumption by about 40%. If it werent for free solar companies there is NO WAY i would have been able to afford to buy solar but i would still be paying for the privileged few who can afford it. I'm a happy bunny!

I really have trouble seeing why you are so happy with the finances in all this.

You save something like £80pa - fine.

To pay for this plus other similar green measures, this year, on average, your bill will be loaded by about £200.

If it weren't for these green initiatives, you would be £120 better off even after the £80 you have 'saved'. (Most other people would be £200 better offthis year).

While you ca expect your £80pa saving to rise each year, the loading on your bill will rise more quickly, to an estimated £500 in less than 9 years.

(My personal view is that the estimate £500pa average loading is a large underestimation, probably made on direct and explicit subsidies only, with numerous indirect subsidies (such as energy market manipulation to favour renewables) being hidden from those estimates).

If someone mugged me in the street, I wouldn't think how fortunate I was to lose £120 to the muggers just because others were mugged for £200.

M4ximillion

grahamc2003 wrote: »

I really have trouble seeing why you are so happy with the finances in all this.

You save something like £80pa - fine.

To pay for this plus other similar green measures, this year, on average, your bill will be loaded by about £200.

If it weren't for these green initiatives, you would be £120 better off even after the £80 you have 'saved'. (Most other people would be £200 better offthis year).

While you ca expect your £80pa saving to rise each year, the loading on your bill will rise more quickly, to an estimated £500 in less than 9 years.

(My personal view is that the estimate £500pa average loading is a large underestimation, probably made on direct and explicit subsidies only, with numerous indirect subsidies (such as energy market manipulation to favour renewables) being hidden from those estimates).

If someone mugged me in the street, I wouldn't think how fortunate I was to lose £120 to the muggers just because others were mugged for £200.

Youve been reading the Daily Mail, which isnt known for being alarmist is? And what are you on about me only saving £80. How do you calculate that? I used 4500kw hours last year (rounded up) if i keep on as im going with my free system i'll save 1800kw hrs x what im paying (12p) per kilowatt hour = £216. so thats what i expect to save in a year with my system. May not be a lot for you but it is for me.

John_Pierpoint

M4ximillion wrote: »

I used 4500kw hours last year (rounded up) if i keep on as im going with my free system i'll save 1800kw hrs x what im paying (12p) per kilowatt hour = £216. so thats what i expect to save in a year with my system. May not be a lot for you but it is for me.

Have you already investigated the "Economy 7" tariff for what looks like an above average domestic consumption?

It sounds a bit like the introduction of computers, where savings were being claimed that could be achieved with better manual systems.

Using expensive PV electricity rather than "cheap" nuclear electricity is an interesting moral argument.

grahamc2003

M4ximillion wrote: »

Youve been reading the Daily Mail, which isnt known for being alarmist is? And what are you on about me only saving £80. How do you calculate that? I used 4500kw hours last year (rounded up) if i keep on as im going with my free system i'll save 1800kw hrs x what im paying (12p) per kilowatt hour = £216. so thats what i expect to save in a year with my system. May not be a lot for you but it is for me.

Why reply with that? What has the Daily Mail got to do with anything? What has whether £216 is a lot to me or not got to do with anything?

I'm 14% down on last years energy use so far this year, yet I don't have solar panels, so comparing those usages says nothing of the savings from solar panels.

If you don't want to discuss the salient points I raised, then fine, there's no need for you to. Just ignore them, but it won't affect the reality of the situation which is that these schemes are costing you money, not saving it for you.

As others have pointed out, those buying the panels are up on the deal, but often those owning the panels are corporate entities who are making fat profits. I have no problem with companies making profits at all - it usually signifies their products are in demand and useful to society - but in this case, the profits occur purely from subsidies, often from people who can't really afford it (and that's what mainly bothers me, not my particular situation).

John_Pierpoint

and under OECD rules, these levies count as "taxation", it will be interesting to see if we can find them in the Government accounts.

zeupater

M4ximillion wrote: »

Youve been reading the Daily Mail, which isnt known for being alarmist is? And what are you on about me only saving £80. How do you calculate that? I used 4500kw hours last year (rounded up) if i keep on as im going with my free system i'll save 1800kw hrs x what im paying (12p) per kilowatt hour = £216. so thats what i expect to save in a year with my system. May not be a lot for you but it is for me.

Hi

One question which immediately comes to mind on those figures is that since having a pv system have you changed your energy usage profile by turning off items on standby etc .....

Saving 1800kWh/y off a 3.3kWp(?) system would result in an in-house consumption of around two-thirds of generation based on a realistic average conversion of around 850kWh/kWp, which is approximately double the savings which our system has returned, however, we significantly reduced consumption through energy saving means, such as standby and purchasing lower consumption appliances, prior to having pv and do not classify these savings as being attributable to the pv system.

HTH
Z

cathd6

I think some people are forgetting that the government hasn't backed the FIT scheme for a laugh. We have to move to renewables because we quite urgently need to get our emissions down, and, more to the point, because we're going to pick up some rather nice fines if we don't. I personally would rather pay now to avoid a bigger, avoidable, bill later, and if I can personally benefit from the scheme then so much the better.

It's not just those who can afford it who benefit from this sea-change in attitudes. My local authority is officially opening a new council development of 18 homes next week where the elderly residents will be paying pennies for gas and electricity, and will have greatly reduced water bills on top.

All progress has to start somewhere, and I for one am not in love with paying unnecessarily through the nose to keep the fossil fuel / nuclear industry in profit.

cathd6

I should have mentioned that I've had my own PV system installed and have saved £100 off electricity in the first quarter without any additional energy saving measures. We're expecting full pay-back in 8 years with FIT payments included, but we do live in a sunny part of the country with ideal roof pitch / aspect.

Cardew

And what are you on about me only saving £80. How do you calculate that? I used 4500kw hours last year (rounded up) if i keep on as im going with my free system i'll save 1800kw hrs x what im paying (12p) per kilowatt hour = £216. so thats what i expect to save in a year with my system. May not be a lot for you but it is for me.

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

One question which immediately comes to mind on those figures is that since having a pv system have you changed your energy usage profile by turning off items on standby etc .....

Saving 1800kWh/y off a 3.3kWp(?) system would result in an in-house consumption of around two-thirds of generation based on a realistic average conversion of around 850kWh/kWp, which is approximately double the savings which our system has returned, however, we significantly reduced consumption through energy saving means, such as standby and purchasing lower consumption appliances, prior to having pv and do not classify these savings as being attributable to the pv system.

HTH
Z

It is the old syndrome of people simply deluding themselves when they have undertaken a course of action and need to justify their decision. People buy a £10 magnet which they strap to the fuel lines of a car and swear blind it reduces fuel consumption by xx%!!

Absolutely no rational explanation of how ‘rent a roof’ panels will save £216.

In all the documented cases I have read – where an export meter is used(the way to measure ‘in house’ consumption) I have not seen an example of more than 1,000kWh pa used. That is in line with most estimates – even ASG do not dispute that figure and WHICH are in the same ballpark.

Incidentally rather than paying 12p per kWh for Tier 2 electricity, it would pay to switch to a cheaper tariff.

If anyone wants to believe they are making such savings - so be it. However people come to this forum for considered advice and we should not be detered from giving this for fear of offending posters.

HalloweenJack

as i understood it , the saving would be in the region of £100 over a year, with most during the summer when apparantly we get lots of sun