Free solar panel discussion

energysavingexp

JenR8 wrote: »

OK Mr X.Pert. Why have you chosen them, apart from size?

Will they remove and replace at their cost to allow any roof repairs?

Have you perused a contract?

Any chance of buying the panels at a later date?

Would love to know.

Still looking,
Jen

im still waiting for the contract from them
i will probably go with them because i will get 1kw more leccy from them.

isis: contract says you have to pay for removal/replacement
yes they will sell the panels to you but they want the full FIT
loss so if you want to buy them say after 6 mts the cost will be £31000 not £15000 the cost of the panels. so it would be pointless buying them.

zeupater

energysavingexp wrote: »

im still waiting for the contract from them
i will probably go with them because i will get 1kw more leccy from them.

isis: contract says you have to pay for removal/replacement
yes they will sell the panels to you but they want the full FIT
loss so if you want to buy them say after 6 mts the cost will be £31000 not £15000 the cost of the panels. so it would be pointless buying them.

Hi

With a potentially 'unfair' clause like that I wonder whether the whole contract would stand up to challenge if taken to court at sometime in the future ?? ....

"A standard term is unfair if it creates a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer, contrary to the requirement of good faith." http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/unfair_contract_terms/oft143.pdf

... I suppose that the 'rent-a-roof" companies would use an arguement based on (from same reference) ....

"Price-setting terms

These are one of two kinds of core term,which are exempt provided they are in plain and intelligible language.
A term is not unfair simply because it puts too high a price on what you want to buy. What might be unfair is a term that allows the supplier to change the price after it has been agreed ......"

I suppose what it would all come down to is whether a table of purchase prices for each year of the contract was supplied at contract stage or not .... how else would the average consumer signing the contract understand the buy-out clause ??

I'm not in a position to ever want to test this as I would never, never ever, consider going anywhere near a scheme which could cost me so much whilst claiming to be 'free'.

As an aside, if your 'rent-a-roof' supplier (Myenergystation) has a similar buy-out clause, will you still go with them ??

energysavingexp

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

With a potentially 'unfair' clause like that I wonder whether the whole contract would stand up to challenge if taken to court at sometime in the future ?? ....

"A standard term is unfair if it creates a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer, contrary to the requirement of good faith." http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/unfair_contract_terms/oft143.pdf

... I suppose that the 'rent-a-roof" companies would use an arguement based on (from same reference) ....

"Price-setting terms

These are one of two kinds of core term,which are exempt provided they are in plain and intelligible language.
A term is not unfair simply because it puts too high a price on what you want to buy. What might be unfair is a term that allows the supplier to change the price after it has been agreed ......"

I suppose what it would all come down to is whether a table of purchase prices for each year of the contract was supplied at contract stage or not .... how else would the average consumer signing the contract understand the buy-out clause ??

I'm not in a position to ever want to test this as I would never, never ever, consider going anywhere near a scheme which could cost me so much whilst claiming to be 'free'.

As an aside, if your 'rent-a-roof' supplier (Myenergystation) has a similar buy-out clause, will you still go with them ??

thanks for that:
NO i would not go with any buy out clause like that.
i would go with the cost of the panels at trade price fitted say £14000 with a buy out cost year on year over 25 years @1/25th of each year.


but i do have a question:
i you bought the system and claim the FIT do you have to pay TAX on the income?
say you pay 50% tax on your income do you pay 50% tax on the FIT?
or is it TAX free
if it is not, that would reduce the FIT payment to 21.4p per Kw

Gizmosmum_2

energysavingexp wrote: »

Homesun will probably use a sub contractor that is certified
otherwise they would not be able to claim the FIT.

i have recieved the contract from isis.
its 20 pages long and you need to read all of it.

Homesun is a trading arm of Eaga, same as a lot of insulation firms and their heating arm, whose name escapes me at the minute.

Out if interest I heard a story today about an eaga solar surveyor having solar installed in his house by another firm who had quoted him 4 weeks quicker than the firm he worked for and £700 cheaper than the firm he worked for. Seems strange that an eaga surveyor is using someone else to install for them :rotfl:

zeupater

energysavingexp wrote: »

thanks for that:
NO i would not go with any buy out clause like that.
i would go with the cost of the panels at trade price fitted say £14000 with a buy out cost year on year over 25 years @1/25th of each year.


but i do have a question:
i you bought the system and claim the FIT do you have to pay TAX on the income?
say you pay 50% tax on your income do you pay 50% tax on the FIT?
or is it TAX free
if it is not, that would reduce the FIT payment to 21.4p per Kw

Hi

On a new MCS installation for an individual the FiT is tax free ... whether it will always remain so ??

As for buying out the remaining lease on a rent-a roof system, I haven't really thought about it but I suppose that the mechanism to transfer the FiT between business and individual would be the same as between one individual & another and the FiT payment would be at the original installation rate and would also be tax-free ......

I'd be surprised if any rent-a-roof company would offer a buy-out clause based on a 1/25th of anything near £14k, they'd be worried that take-up would be used as a form of up-front finance, but I could see them basing the price on the EST guide prices .....

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Solar-electricity#Costs,savingsandmaintenance
"Costs for installing a solar electricity system vary a lot - an average system (2.2kW) costs around £12,000 (including VAT at 5%). Per kW, solar electricity systems can cost in the region of £4,500 to £8,000 per kW, but costs per kW should reduce as system size increases."

... so it's more likely that they'd use this information source as a basis to justify pricing a 4.44kWp system at around £20k minimum ... so I'd guess that 1/25th of this per year outstanding would probably be the best your likely to get ...

HTH

EddyB

Did they actually say you'd get 'free solar'? they told us we 'probably would'. Their rep took £100 when he visited 'to secure the survey'. They later offered us the £500 system whcih we didn't want, and it was hard to get the money back. So just be aware of this, and don't part with any money! (Unless of course you want to!)

Jen, thanks for that reply.

Actually, during the call from Homesun it was just stated that I would have a choice between the free installation or another "option". (I can't remember the name that was used for that "option".)

Anyway, it took ME to make the rep spell out the difference, i.e. that one "option" would be truly free of charge and that the other would cost us £500!

It was also ME that then had to press further and ensure I was given an answer as to why I might wish to choose the £500 option! The answer I was given amounted to the reality that at the end of the day it wouldn't be ME choosing the "option" at all! The reality will be that following the surveyor's visit I will be advised whether Homesun is prepared to do an entirely free installation or charge us £500 for the same work!

So it then took ME to press the rep further as to how they would make their decision. I was informed that I would be offered the £500 option if the installation was thought difficult for the company to achieve. Of course, I expect that I will therefore be offered the £500 "option" as it's so easy, isn't it, for any surveyor to find reasons why any installation on any roof is "going to be difficult"!

During the call the Homesun rep made no mention of a £100 fee for the survey. Jen, was it mentioned to you PRIOR to the surveyor's visit? If not, thanks for the warning!

It all sounds a bit dubious. They get themselves here by holding out the carrot of a 100% completely free installation. They come, decide if an installation will be to their advantage, and if it is they do not tell you there and then but advise that you must pay £100 "to secure the survey" - which, effectively, means "Pay us £100 or we won't even tell you if you have passed the test"! Of course, you're all excited about the prospect of free electricity, so you hand over £100. And then, once you have paid the £100, they subsequently may tell you that your roof will unfortunately pose difficulties so you with deep regret you're to be offered the £500 "option"!

All the way through the call from the Homesun rep I was thinking to myself, "My goodness, how NICE you are being to me!" I don't think I have ever had such a NICE and PLEASANT rep on the phone to us ever - except for estate agents before you actually sign the contract for them to sell your home and collect that commission!

I fear it's another "no brainer"! Some of these companies are being so NICE to us because they are on to one hell of a money-earner for themselves if they can just get their panels fixed to our roofs. And certain other companies, like Isis, have decided simply to be tough and to do absolutely nothing until you have signed their 20-page contract - after which, if they desire, they can advise you that they don't wish to use your roof.

They're onto a real winner slapping these panels on roofs. Just go to the MCS website and see the hundreds of companies throughout the country who are installing panels! And they're being greedier still! Some of them are manipulating potential roof-owners in order to get an additional £600 out of them before the panels are installed!

The conclusion we are reaching is that if we had an enormous property and we could locate a bank of ugly panels in some far and sunny corner of the garden, out of sight, then we would do so at our expense. Future buyers of our house would come and see just a house, as they would expect, and they could decide to do what they wanted with the bank of panels in the far corner - to either keep them going or not.

EddyB

Gizmosmum wrote: »

Homesun is a trading arm of Eaga

Gizmosmum, if what you say is true then you have made me even more suspicious of Homesun. So, thankyou.

When Homesun rang me they did not tell me they were a trading arm of Eaga.

The Homesun rep told me that Homesun employs another company, a surveying company called Eaga, to carry out surveys to advise Homesun, the installation company, whether an installation is feasible and would be beneficial.

Of course, it's possible that a rep arranging appointments may not actually know the reality of the relationship between EAGE and Homesun, but, as I have said in my reply to Jen, the Homesun rep who called me sounded very accomplished and in control.

EddyB

stevevp wrote: »

1. It may prove to be a sales inhibitor when I go to sell the house in 7 to 10 years time. Because the property is tied in for 25 years and by this time solar solutions would be a lot cheaper (he thinks) and a new buyer may well want to install their own solution and get a better return on their money rather than stick with the one I have signed up to. To do this they would have to buy themselves out of the SKY deal which would be expensive. Or I would have to do it. Very expensive.

SteveVP, many thanks for posting the above following discussion with your solicitor. We are of the same mind. When people go looking for a new home, they look for their "dream home", for something that looks attractive. So if the panels are numerous and obvious, they are a negative. Additionally, who knows how the technology may improve. In fifteen years time, this house could be stuck with another ten years of ancient-looking panels in comparison to what is likely to have become available by that time.

These considerations may not worry some people however.

slacky555

Hi

I have followed this thread from the start, but this is my first post I have been turned down by Isis because I am more than 1 hour from them and ASG said my roof was to small, I have now been accepted by homesun for there solar share scheme which is 14 panels and think 2.6kw system it was first advertised as £500 and £5 a month but they said to keep competitive it is now just £5 a month no £500, i don't really know why this is because the number of panels are less so less outlay for them but because of the lower income they would get from the FIT's, I paid the £100 for a Eaga person to come round and will be sure to make sure I get this back as on here please have said it's hard to claim back. The only thing I have looked at so far in the lease is the buy out price which people have said look out for as some from other companies are over £31k this one is £10600 with straight line depreciation over the 25 years.

I have done my maths and even with the £5 a month charge I would still be saving money at today's prices so more as the years go by, and I am really into buying the system in a few years to then take the FIT's.

I know some on here have said it may put potential buyers off because they may want to fit there own system and take the FIT's but at this low buy out price I could buy it and in the over all general scheme of things it isnt a lot compared to the sale of the house but we wouldnt be looking to move for at least 10years.

What do you all think? What else do I need to look out for? Is it a good deal or not? Shall I walk away or has anyone got the £5 a month dropped?

Cardew

Slacky555 wrote: »

Hi

What do you all think? What else do I need to look out for? Is it a good deal or not? Shall I walk away or has anyone got the £5 a month dropped?

It is a disgraceful deal!