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pauldreed

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

Presumably it would be possible to fit the tank with a small immersion heater and use that say 5 hours per day?

I've been looking at this 1kw immersion heater which has a 2 1/4" BSP fitting and should fit a standard cylinder.
The only reservation I have, is that it is only 11" long - and I am unsure if it would therefore only heat the top 12" or so of the water in the cylinder...

K4blades

Cardew
Of course!
First of all I don't know what you you are referring to when you mention a deleted post, I don't spend enough time on this forum to follow it that closely so your talk of "revenge" is just silly. But what is clear is that certain people don't like their opinions challenged.
Grahams post is extremely pedantic, I mention "lunch time summer months", and he wants me to tie it down to exact times. (I can't predict now what the weather will be like next July, but next July, on a day to day basis, anyone can easily predict if tomorrow will be generally sunny all day, or peeing it down...do I really have to spell it out, or is common sense missing completey). I'd also edited the 5kw to 4 prior to any other replies which only happened as I'd pressed the wrong key, but doesn't alter the principle. (see the edit note at the bottom of the post.)
The point is as Zeupater points out towards the end of his post, people should test their system and see what works best for their own specific situation, rather than relying on something that is based on general assumptions.
There seems to be 2 types of people contributing to this thread, those that have the panels, and those that haven't. Common sense would suggest that someone looking for advice would take it from those who have actual experience rather than opinion and assumption. I do however, recognise your honesty when you say you don't like how ASG operate, but just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean its a bad idea for those who don't share that view.

Cardew

K4blades wrote: »

Cardew
Of course!
First of all I don't know what you you are referring to when you mention a deleted post, .

It was full of personal abuse - you seemed beside yourself with rage and the post was presumably deleted by the moderator.

Look at posts 1102 and 1104.

You really can't remember when and what you wrote? Mmmm I really do believe you; as it explains a lot.

Doc_N

Could we just leave out the petty wrangling, guys?

K4blades

Cardew wrote: »

It was full of personal abuse - you seemed beside yourself with rage and the post was presumably deleted by the moderator.

Look at posts 1102 and 1104.

You really can't remember when and what you wrote? Mmmm I really do believe you; as it explains a lot.

Rage....ahh that will be you making more assumptions about peoples behaviour, your arrogance is outstanding.
Unlike you, I have very little time to visit this site, but then again I've no grudge to bear or axe to grind, so no, I can't honestly remember what I posted several weeks ago, maybe I'm getting old but would need to see it to comment and if someone else has removed it then fair enough, but it wasn't me.
You on the other hand have been heavily involved on these boards from day one, though you admit you dislike the way ASG work. Now heres a simple question for you. Have you any direct involvement or experience of dealing with them / using their services?
No doubt you will come back in your predictable way and accuse me of being ruffled, well its better than answering the question I suppose, so I will reiterate my point that if anyone wants to know if they can save money from ASGs services, take that advice from someone who has experience of dealing with them, rather than someone with a grudge.

grahamc2003

K4blades wrote: »

Cardew

But what is clear is that certain people don't like their opinions challenged.
Grahams post is extremely pedantic, I mention "lunch time summer months", and he wants me to tie it down to exact times. (I can't predict now what the weather will be like next July, but next July, on a day to day basis, anyone can easily predict if tomorrow will be generally sunny all day, or peeing it down...do I really have to spell it out, or is common sense missing completey). I'd also edited the 5kw to 4 prior to any other replies which only happened as I'd pressed the wrong key, but doesn't alter the principle. (see the edit note at the bottom of the post.)
The point is as Zeupater points out towards the end of his post, people should test their system and see what works best for their own specific situation, rather than relying on something that is based on general assumptions.
There seems to be 2 types of people contributing to this thread, those that have the panels, and those that haven't. Common sense would suggest that someone looking for advice would take it from those who have actual experience rather than opinion and assumption. I do however, recognise your honesty when you say you don't like how ASG operate, but just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean its a bad idea for those who don't share that view.

Well K4, I really wish you would challenge something I've written - I've gone to reasonable detail pointing out the numerous errors in your thoughts (I think that's what you term 'pedantic'), so I've made it very easy for you to dispute - but you don't for some reason. Instead you merely reply with a vacuous and incorrect statement about everyone who has a panel must have better advice than those who haven't. (I don't have panels because I've weighed up all the pros and cons, and even with the fit I don't think they are worthwhile for me). Your view is a little like saying if you have a broken leg, you seek the advice of someone else with a broken leg rather than a doctor. (and please think a little before you reply that you don't have a broken leg).

Don't you see why you get criticism? You simply make assertions, backed up by nothing at all. If that weren';t so bad, your assertions are totally incorrect, and will lead people to waste money by using the output of their panels inefficiently (even to the extent of increasing bills rather than decreasing them).

Your 'arguments' seem to be along the lines of

"The sun often shines at lunchtime, therefore if you turn you immersion heater on at lunchtime instead of using your gas boiler you'll save lots of money."

Can you see how frustrating that is for those who have the ability to analyse the situation quantitatively and come to the opposite conclusion? I really don't know whether any readers of this take advice from anything written here, but if they do, and they take your advice above, then it's such a waste of resources and such a shame.

zeupater

K4blades wrote: »

The point is as Zeupater points out towards the end of his post, people should test their system and see what works best for their own specific situation, rather than relying on something that is based on general assumptions.

Hi All

To clarify .... The point was made was so that no-one would set their immersion heater to timer around lunchtime and leave it on that setting whilst out at work (as has been posted as a solution on this thread) so as to not be aware that this action would be more expensive than either E7 or gas.

k4blades, please check your logic ...... 'but even if you've bought the panels, and receiving the FITs yourself, you will only get back 3p per kwh, which doesn't even cover the price of the gas.' .... (and then check again) prior to posting .... If you check your logic against the data in the challenge you will see that in my case it works out only fractionally disadvantageous to heat water (6kWh) with gas at 2.7745p/kWh and export generated electricity at 3p/kWh, so why gamble on having to import an unknown proportion of the required energy at 8.5833p/kWh ... this is illogical.

The data is the data, what is the calculation ??

K4blades

Why do some people struggle so much with the English language.

Zeupater, once again you are ASSUMING you know what tariffs people are paying for their gas and electric. Correct about data being data, but the data for YOUR house is different to everyone elses and you are making a lot of assumptions. I won't calculate someones exact gains and losses because it relies on me guessing and could go either way, so I suggest individuals try playing around with their own systems to see what works best for them.

And Graham, if I broke my leg, I might not go to get it fixed by someone else with a broken leg, but I might ask that person for advice on who is a good doctor rather than seeking the advice from someone who has never been to a doctors. If you want another analogy, its like me going to a thread about rail travel where people are looking for good advice about saving on their train fares, and me stating that they shouldn't used Virgin trains though I haven't been on a train in years, but I don't like Richard Branson.

If you are going to put forward an arguement, at least engage your brain first.

Cardew

K4blades wrote: »

I can't honestly remember what I posted several weeks ago, maybe I'm getting old but would need to see it to comment and if someone else has removed it then fair enough, but it wasn't me.

Look again at posts 1102 & 1104.

Your abusive post that was removed by the moderator was posted on the 19th Oct. Not several weeks ago.

You should be worried if you cannot remember!

zeupater

K4blades wrote: »

Why do some people struggle so much with the English language.

Zeupater, once again you are ASSUMING you know what tariffs people are paying for their gas and electric. Correct about data being data, but the data for YOUR house is different to everyone elses and you are making a lot of assumptions. I won't calculate someones exact gains and losses because it relies on me guessing and could go either way, so I suggest individuals try playing around with their own systems to see what works best for them.

And Graham, if I broke my leg, I might not go to get it fixed by someone else with a broken leg, but I might ask that person for advice on who is a good doctor rather than seeking the advice from someone who has never been to a doctors. If you want another analogy, its like me going to a thread about rail travel where people are looking for good advice about saving on their train fares, and me stating that they shouldn't used Virgin trains though I haven't been on a train in years, but I don't like Richard Branson.

If you are going to put forward an arguement, at least engage your brain first.

Hi

I must catagorically emphasise, I assume nothing, I am merely pointing out the data which would be required for the calculation to prove or disprove your claim. It is up to you to provide the logic and the calculations to support your claims. I take it therefore that you are unable to forward reasoned justification and any form of mathematical proof for your own assumptions based on the reasonable information provided and therefore wish to back down from the challenge.

Of course, the example prices for energy are based on my own consumption, however the challenge clearly stated "Feel free to use my average costs as an example (Costs inclusive of VAT and dual fuel discounts) .... If my figures are not considered as being readily obtainable please feel free to check on any cost comparison website ...... ", which is as fair as it can possibly be in order to prove the point either way. The challenge includes a very low water heating energy consumption of 6kWh/day, this is in line with very highly efficient houses built to PassivHaus standards, my own insulation and usage is very much in line with this, however, if you wish to use UK average data then that's fine as it just swings the argument further away from your own standpoint claims.

I, like others, am very interested to see a quantifiable justification to substantiate the claims, maybe I'll turn my gas boiler off and use my immersion to heat water next summer, but I guess that the reply will consist of more unsubstantiated spin ......

All ...... please be assured, with a 3.3kWp system you will likely have around 25 hours per year when you will be able to completely power a 3kW immersion heater, the days where you could do this for two consecutive hours will therefore be extremely rare. Please be wary of any installer, company or individual who claims otherwise, especially if they are unable to quantify and substantiate their logic.