survey help please!!!

zoemcphr

Hello

First time poster needs help. We have just exchanged on our first property two weeks ago. On the valuation/survey it was noted that the property needs a damp proof course and some timber replacing. The mortgage company retained £1500 until we get the work done which is fine. We also had a small budget for new kitchen, bath, plastering etc. When we got the keys and went in to start ripping things out we noticed that there didnt seem to be a mains electric switch. My husband and I both thought this was strange and dangerous. We called in my brother to take a look and as soon as he opened the cupboard whre the meters and things are kept he said 'woah! this is not right'. Anyway to cut long story short every man (sorry, not being sexist) that has seen the house has said the same thing 'why on earth was this not picked up on?' as there are live wires everywhere and to turn off the electric we need to pull out every fuse which as it happens still left one light on!

The house needs a complete re-wire (approx £3500) which is not in the budget at all. My qeustions is do we have any sort of comeback with the surveyor? I called the mortgage company and they basically said not our problem and to take it up with surveyor. Despite leaving messages this week we are yet to hear back from them. Has anyone hared of this before? Surely the electric is something they notice? How come they noticed damp but not this? Any advice/ comments would be welcome as we are at the moment feeling thats its not fair! We have waited so long to own our own house and now its jyst like a big mess.

thanks in advance zoe xxx

silvercar

Did you get a mortgage valuation or a homebuyers report? Although I would have expected a valuation to pick this up, you have no comeback if they didn't. In fact some valuations are just drive pasts with no inspection.

to turn off the electric we need to pull out every fuse which as it happens still left one light on!

This actually sounds like you haven't found the main switch yet, keep digging.

Debt_Free_Chick

Firstly, what of sort of survey did you have? If you paid for a survey, you should have the report - what does it say about the electrics? Many surveys simply test that the supply is working, but then recommend a specialist electrical report. Surveyors deal with the fabric of the buildings - you need an electrician to comment on the state of the electrics.

A surveyor is no better placed to comment on the electrics, than an electrician is to comment on damp, subsidence etc. They are two different things.

I doubt there is any comeback on the surveyor, but you need to tell us what they put in the report please.

TJ27

Debt_Free_Chick wrote:

A surveyor is no better placed to comment on the electrics, than an electrician is to comment on damp, subsidence etc.

Why is there a section in a homebuyers report for electrics then? I agree that surveyors might not know details about electrical installations but they should be able to tell you the basics about consumer units, main switches, earth bonding, etc. You're right though, we need to know what the survey said.

In theory, valuations and even homebuyers reports are actually done on behalf of the mortgage company, despite the fact that the buyer pays. So in theory you can only sue the surveyor if you have a full survey done. In practice there might be a comeback but you need to decide whether it's worth the hassle, or whether you should just get the work done and put it down to experience.

MascaraMinx

TJ27 wrote:

In theory, valuations and even homebuyers reports are actually done on behalf of the mortgage company, despite the fact that the buyer pays. So in theory you can only sue the surveyor if you have a full survey done. In practice there might be a comeback but you need to decide whether it's worth the hassle, or whether you should just get the work done and put it down to experience.

My understanding is that the Homebuyers Report is for the Buyer (hence the name) and the valuation part of it is for the mortgage company. If you paid for a Homebuyers report a contract exists between you and the surveyor as you are purchasing the property on trust that the content of their report is full and accurate. I'm afraid I don't know much more than this though and I suspect there will be T&C's which will exempt them from liability for things like electrics. Good luck and let us know

zoemcphr

Hi
many thanks for your help so far xx
Right we had the basic valuation survey done. On it it states that we needed to have a damp proof course and some timber replaced (joists and the like). The vendor gave us a cheque for the cost of the work (it was easier that way) and the mortgage company retained money until we show reciept for work done.

It also stated (we never saw a copy of this and being FTB's were prob naive) that 'it would be prudent to check the electrics as it is dated although some modernsiation has occured' (that being new socket covers downstairs)

Anyway have just got off the phone with the solicitor that acted for us and he said basically tough s***! We should have had it checked or paid for better survey. The fact that they picked up on damp but not dangerous electrics (defo no mains switch btw) is irrelevent.

I could lay down and cry I am so frustrated. We have wanted this for so long and have not been in position to mortgage before. Things were on the up. Now we face borrowing yet more money that we really cant afford just to make the house livable. At the moment it has no kitchen, no heating of any kind, no floor covering, no electric and to top it all we have to be out of our current home for the end of the month. If we extended our current tenancy for say a month we would be facing a rent and mortgage payment which is so frightening.

We had a small budget to install new (cheapest takeaway) kit and bath, mates rates to replaster, central heating (interest free no payment for year), flooring throughout and decoration. We planned to upgrade and make it our lovely home over the years. Now the unexpected electric cost has wiped out nearly all our money.

sorry to rant for so long but I am at my wits end and I'm home from work today with two sick children so thats a days pay lost. Someone get me a brandy quick!!!!

best regards

zoe x

marybishop

This is the problem - people think the mortgage valuation is a survey and it isn't. There are only two types of survey - the Homebuyers Survey & Valuation and a full structural survey. The HS&V is in a set format from the RICS and therefore the surveyor is limited by this format. As a firm of surveyors we are not overly keen on the HS&V because of its limitations and prefer to carry out full structural surveys because it is a much more in depth report. The trouble is people don't want to pay the fee as they think an extra £100 for the FSS is too much. At the end of the day as with most things in life you get what you pay for.

MascaraMinx

marybishop wrote:

This is the problem - people think the mortgage valuation is a survey and it isn't. There are only two types of survey - the Homebuyers Survey & Valuation and a full structural survey. The HS&V is in a set format from the RICS and therefore the surveyor is limited by this format. As a firm of surveyors we are not overly keen on the HS&V because of its limitations and prefer to carry out full structural surveys because it is a much more in depth report. The trouble is people don't want to pay the fee as they think an extra £100 for the FSS is too much. At the end of the day as with most things in life you get what you pay for.

but the OP is saying they just had the basic valuation not the Homebuyers report which is different. My Homebuyers survey is very substantial (20 pages long plus photos) and very thorough.

I have to say though, we were asked by our mortgage advisor which survey type we wanted. We were expected to choose on the spot which without any knowledge or understanding of the difference or the possible implications. when we asked about the Full Structural survey we were told "oh it's usually only for listed buildings" and "It's where they pull the floorboards up and that type of thing". Given how heavily financial institutions are regulated, I'm surprised there aren't stricter rules about informing custmers of the details.

Debt_Free_Chick

zoemcphr wrote:

It also stated (we never saw a copy of this and being FTB's were prob naive) that 'it would be prudent to check the electrics as it is dated although some modernsiation has occured' (that being new socket covers downstairs)

The problem is that this was not a "survey" but just a valuation for the mortgage lender. They only want to know if the house is worth lending money on - as if they ever had to repossess, they would want to get their money back! They are really only interested in the basic condition of the property i.e. is it falling down or not?

Anyway have just got off the phone with the solicitor that acted for us and he said basically tough s***! We should have had it checked or paid for better survey.

Unfortunately correct - but it's a pity that no-one pointed out that you could/should really have had a survey (and not just the lender's valuation). I suspect that buried in the papers you have, someone did set out the option for you to have a Homebuyer's survey or a full structural survey. But these things are difficult to pick up for a FTB.

It's worth bearing in mind that no-one will force you to have any of this work done "straight away". The mortgage lender might have a timescale for the damp work, but you need to check that with them.

The electrics? Very many of us live in properties that need the electrics updating. So long as the currently set up is not intrinsically dangerous, you don't have to have this done immediately. But you should think about paying an electrical engineer to do a report for you. Then talk to him about it and understand how urgent the work is. Don't get someone in to "do a quote for the work" - get someone to tell you how dangerous it is and how urgent any work is. You may have to pay up to £100 for this, but at least you will know where you stand.

One thing I will say .... there is little point in doing much in the way of decoration if you need to have whole house rewired. Usually, this involves digging channels out of the existing plasterwork.

Anyway, you may find that you want extra sockets and/or light fittings - again, it would probably be better and more money-saving to have that done, when the house is rewired.

Don't despair. And don't be tempted to spend money on decorating, just yet. But do spend money on an electrical report.

marybishop

MascaraMinx wrote:

but the OP is saying they just had the basic valuation not the Homebuyers report which is different. My Homebuyers survey is very substantial (20 pages long plus photos) and very thorough.

I have to say though, we were asked by our mortgage advisor which survey type we wanted. We were expected to choose on the spot which without any knowledge or understanding of the difference or the possible implications. when we asked about the Full Structural survey we were told "oh it's usually only for listed buildings" and "It's where they pull the floorboards up and that type of thing". Given how heavily financial institutions are regulated, I'm surprised there aren't stricter rules about informing custmers of the details.

It's a pity the OP wasn't better advised. Not sure all mortgage advisers know the difference between the types of surveys - ours certainly didn't (that's not meant to sound unkind - he admitted he hadn't realised the differences when we were talking about them!). The advice re FSS's being just for listed buildings and where floorboards are pulled up is actually incorrect. When people phone us for quotes we try to explain in as much detail as possible what is covered and will either direct them to the RICS website for clarification or a booklet produced by the RICS. But at the end of the day we cannot tell people which survey to have we can only advise.

Debt_Free_Chick

MascaraMinx wrote:

but the OP is saying they just had the basic valuation not the Homebuyers report which is different. My Homebuyers survey is very substantial (20 pages long plus photos) and very thorough.

But it still does not include a complete electrical inspection. Surveyors are NOT qualified to do this - unless they also happen to be qualified electrical engineers and, typically, members of the Institution of Electrical Engineers. Even a full structural survey does not include a full electrical test.

You are confusing the job of the surveyor and the purpose of the building survey with a different specialised inspection. A typical survey would say something like ....

"You are advised that the Institution of Electrical Engineers recommend that the electrical system(s) in residential properties be checked and tested at least once every five years. You are advised that no detailed inspection, checking and testing of the supply, meter, fuses, earthing, wiring circuits, cross-bonding, switches, power sockets and electrical appliances was carried out. "

They might comment that the wiring looks out of date. This is usually apparent by looking at the age of the sockets - even I could tell you that :rotfl: but it wouldn't be much use to you as a buyer.

Given how heavily financial institutions are regulated, I'm surprised there aren't stricter rules about informing custmers of the details.

They are only regulated in relation to financial products - in this case, the mortgage. They have no greater understanding of surveys than the average man in the street - as was demonstrated by the inaccurate description of the structural survey