"You're not getting paid" When employers go bad!

Blaz

Ive just graduated Uni an like most ppl trying to find work is hard. So i thought myself lucky when i was offered a job as a web designer (thats what i studied) for a local debt management company.

Warning signs were going off in my head even in the interview something just didnt sit right with me. Anyway I needed the money so i thought id jus go see what it was like. Before I continue the job was a trial bases and i have emails from the employer confirming it is a paid trial. I started last Tuesday, in the 4 days i worked last week not once was I asked for bank details, or NI details or P45's or nothing, i wasnt taken through any kind of new employee procedures whatsoever. I havent signed a thing no employee contract, no employee policies or nothing.

After what can only be described as a horrible 4 days working for this scumbag in his 2 bit unprofessional legal loan shark company, i decided id have enough, the work id done for him was on my USB stick not on his computer. I rang him this morning to call in sick to give myself a few days to figure out what im going to do. Well after a few words he asked me where my work was I told him that id worked from the files stored on my USB stick and intended to copy them to the computer at the end of the day but had forgot to. Well we exchanged words about this an lets jus say he didnt want me back. He then told me i wouldnt be getting paid either as id broken his trust ... nice one 4 days in this mans company an i dont even get a penny for it.

Is this legal?? I mean i didnt break any company rules by working from my usb stick i didnt sign or agree that i wouldnt. WHat can i do to get my pay??

Its shocking that during times when people are struggling scammers an idiots like him are ripping people off everywhere. Files or no files i dont think he ever had intentions of paying me.

pinkshoes

Well you haven't actually done any work for him yet if it's on your USB stick... I think he can withhold pay until you hand over the work you've done!! (or you can hang onto it and not get paid).

Blaz

pinkshoes wrote: »

Well you haven't actually done any work for him yet if it's on your USB stick... I think he can withhold pay until you hand over the work you've done!! (or you can hang onto it and not get paid).

I offered him the work, i said id upload it via FTP or even email ... he said he didnt want it. Like i said i got the impression he was never going to pay me, he was jus gunna keep my work and then say i didnt pass the trial ... then goodbye to me and he has all my work.

Uncertain

They cannot legally withhold pay and, after asking for the money in writing and giving them a reasonable time to pay (21 days say), you could take them to an employment tribunal. There is no minimum length of employment for this claim.

Technically you accrued a tiny amount of holiday in the time you were there so you could ask for this as well!

However, they are entitled to any work you did so I would make sure they get these files ASAP.

Neither party has the right to hold the other to ransom.

[Deleted User]

Did you have a signed contract of employment? If not.. well - why did you even start working for them?

Without a contract, the work you did is your intellectual property and you can put it on your USB stick if you want to. You won't get paid for your work though.

Blaz

Like i said it was a "paid trial" no contracts no nothing ... I have emails as proof thats it.

SarEl

I don't think this one is at all straightforward. On the one hand, if you can prove that a contract of employment existed (which the e-mail may evidence - but equally it may be evidence of a contract of service, which is something else entirely) then you should be paid for the days that you attended work. On the other hand, your assumptions are not relevant here because you could not evidence them - you have, in effect, done no work then gone off sick. You don't trust the employer and obviously never have - given that you have "done no work and gone off sick" would you, in their place, trust someone in IT who offers to upload something to your computers / server? Because I don't think I would. So the bottom line is that you may be owed some money if you can show that the agreement to pay you was a contract of employment and not a contract for service. But on the other hand, this is exactly the sort of employer who is more than likely well aware of the provisions to counter-sue you, and given the opportunity, may well do so.

Uncertain

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Did you have a signed contract of employment? If not.. well - why did you even start working for them?

Without a contract, the work you did is your intellectual property and you can put it on your USB stick if you want to. You won't get paid for your work though.

No, not really.

The fact that the OP was offered a job on certain terms, turned up and did the work means that a contract of employment exists - although granted it may be difficult to prove. A contract does not have to be in writing to exist.

The OP would ONLY own the intellectual property if he were working on a freelance /self employed basis.

Two wrongs do not make a right. If the firm somehow successfully argue that he was not an employee THEN he owns the IP.

Blaz

Here are the emails, is this a contract then ? -

Hi ***,

>>> could you send me some brief details about the job just so
>>> i
>>> have written confrimation of how much ill be on, is it hourly pay or a
>>> salary. Do i get paid monthly or weekly. / confrimation of daily hours
>>> and
>>> how many hours a week. and what days of the week ect.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> ***

---

>> Hi ***
>>
>> I can confirm that you will begin employment with company name here
>> on Thursday July 22nd.
>>
>> Company name and address is written here
>>
>> Hourly rate will start at £6.50 per hour plus bonuses (With reviews)
>> Hours are : Monday - Friday 10am to 6pm.
>>
>> Regards
name here
>> M.D.

[Deleted User]

Any email where you agree to the terms?

Frankly, i'd just forget about the contract and contact them to work on a project specific basis - i.e. they want a website doing, you set a fee and do the work for them, but not as an employee.

I got 'burned' like this when doing web design 10 years ago. I learned that you need to write up a scope document to describe the work you will do and what you won't do. You can get the client to sign this document off, it gives both of you some form of protection. However, you will need to register yourself as self-employed to do this.

Uncertain

Blaz wrote: »

Here are the emails, is this a contract then ? -

Hi ***,

>>> could you send me some brief details about the job just so
>>> i
>>> have written confrimation of how much ill be on, is it hourly pay or a
>>> salary. Do i get paid monthly or weekly. / confrimation of daily hours
>>> and
>>> how many hours a week. and what days of the week ect.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Ian

---

>> Hi ***
>>
>> I can confirm that you will begin employment with company name here
>> on Thursday July 22nd.
>>
>> Company name and address is written here
>>
>> Hourly rate will start at £6.50 per hour plus bonuses (With reviews)
>> Hours are : Monday - Friday 10am to 6pm.
>>
>> Regards
name here
>> M.D.

Yes it is.

I would be interested to know what SarEl thinks they could counter sue for in this instance?

As I see it the OP went sick then was sacked, he didn't walk out without notice (although I agree this may not be easy to prove).

The fact that he took the firm's data home may be grounds to sack him but that doesn't mean they can refuse to pay for the days he worked.

As I sad before he must not hold the data to ransom - unless he was self employed.