Tenants - are you happy for your personal data to be shared ?

DVardysShadow

clutton wrote: »

... the NI number is simply used to prevent someone with an identical name being the subject of referencing incorrectly ....

In technical terms, you are saying that the NINO is used as Primary Key on the database. So what - this info is still in there and available for bad as well as good.

clutton wrote: »

We as landlords have to find a way of identifying the pool of "professional tenants" who spend their lives stealing tax payers money, not paying rent, damaging properties, clogging up court time, and causing untold misery, and damaging the good reputation of the vast majority of the tenant pool due to their illegal and fraudulent behaviours...

I appreciate this will be a contentious issue......

Ah, the Daily Mail defence. As Jesus said when questioned about tax, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's". Logically, Caesar should also look after what is Caesar's and the Landlords should butt out.

clutton wrote: »

The LRS site has not been set up by a "random" Landlord without any thought going into it - he has researched his DP responsibilities very thoroughly indeed - as a company they are registered under the DP Registration No. Z2272405 - and clearly take their responsibilities seriously.

The DP registration is not really a certificate of clean health on a database - it does not certify compliance. It merely certifies registration accompanied by claims of compliance. Using the NINO as primary key has potential to damage data subjects. I doubt that the ICO reviews - or even asks for - the primary key of any database.

clutton wrote: »

This actually formalises a more informal arrangement... as in many small towns letting agents keep an informal list of black-listed tenants and keep each other informed on a regular basis....

If there is an informal list it should be DP registered and the Data Subjects should have the right to challenge. This news is not surprising, it is merely shocking

LittleMissAspie

This is awful. I don't want my details on it and no I'm not a problem tenant trying to hide myself. If I am on it, how do I get myself taken off?

lynzpower

Im going to ask that of the ICO on monday mIssaspie

Callie22

I am really unhappy about this, as it seems to me (as a tenant) that the potential for abuse is massive. I am not and never have been a bad tenant, but I have been in a situation where my actions could probably have been construed as such by an unscrupulous LL and LA. Briefly, my partner and I ended up in a situation a couple of years ago where we were ripped off completely, and it really isn't an exaggeration to say that our lives were put in danger. We stood up for ourselves, and reported our LL and LA to ever possible body, from the local council to environmental health to the NAEA. It got us evicted but our claims were upheld and I'm glad to say it caused a significant amount of bother for both the LL and the LA. My point here is that surely 'bad' is an incredibly subjective term of reference? I'm sure in the eyes of our LL and LA we were 'tenants from hell', despite paying our rent on time and leaving the property in far, far better condition than on the day we moved in. What's to stop us being uploaded onto this website as 'nightmares'? How can we defend ourselves?

Sure, the website claims that any LL found uploading false information will be 'struck off', but what's the point - surely from the tenant's perspective the damage has been done by that point? You'd find yourself out of pocket, unable to rent somewhere and potentially having no idea what's been said about you. Clutton has claimed that the site works by flagging up problems and then putting LLs in touch with each other - what chance does a tenant have when information is being exchanged in such an underhand way? You could be the best tenant on the planet but if you've made the mistake of standing up for yourself and in doing so annoyed your LL, then ultimately it could end up being very difficult to find somewhere to live. I don't trust human nature enough to assume that people will use this site in the way the creator obviously intended, the potential for spiteful and unfounded allegations is just too great.

This site seems incredibly unfair - at the very least, any tenant who is uploaded should be informed and have the chance to access any information about themselves and respond appropriately.

eta: also, don't the data protection rules state that information can only be held as long as is necessary? Could it not be argued that once a tenant has left a property, and the LL is assured that all bills are paid etc, it is no longer necessary for the LL to retain a tenant's most personal details? I accept that for a 'bad' (ie non-paying) tenant the LL would be within their rights to hold on to this info until such a time as any legal proceedings are complete, but if the site wants LLs to upload the details of ALL tenants then surely the law is being broken in this case? I also thought that in any case where details are held on electronic databases, people must be fully informed as to what their details may be used for, and must be given the chance to opt-out?

clutton_2

""Could it not be argued that once a tenant has left a property, and the LL is assured that all bills are paid etc, it is no longer necessary for the LL to retain a tenant's most personal details?""

i keep my tenants application forms, references, tenancy agreements and any HB docs for several years as the local authority can write to you years after a tenancy has ended to claim clawbacks on benefits; the tax man can ask for records going back 7 years also.

with regard to putting ALL tenants names on there... that is up to the individual landlord... i shall never put good tenants names on there

I can well see why folks are really riled up about this.. it has caused a lot of discussion in the landlord community


Lets start a side-debate then....

how are landlords to protect themselves from this tiny minority of professional tenants fleecing them..... and dont forget "good ones" really can falsify all references ...

what suggestions do tenants have as to how we might protect ourselves .......



I read similar themes when the last government was proposing its landlord register (now dropped)

seems like we ALL dislike disclosure of data......

tbs624

clutton wrote: »

Lets start a side-debate then....

how are landlords to protect themselves from this tiny minority of professional tenants fleecing them..... and dont forget "good ones" really can falsify all references ...

what suggestions do tenants have as to how we might protect ourselves .......

If you'd like a side-debate Clutton on LL concerns about difficult Ts, may I suggest that you start a separate thread?

This one is intended as an opportunity for Tenants to discuss their concerns about who may be passing on/holding their personal data and why.

Callie22

with regard to putting ALL tenants names on there... that is up to the individual landlord... i shall never put good tenants names on there

But then you're not abiding by the T&C's of the website, and (presumably) you're getting away with it because I can't see anyone being bothered to check. This surely works both ways - who's going to be bothered to check whether what you choose to write there is true or false? The tenant can't, and I can't see many LLs having time to dig ... It'll end up being 'good' and 'bad', and god help you if you get listed as a 'bad' tenant.

In terms of what I think LLs should do to protect themselves, well I don't know - the problem is that tenants seem to be automatically regarded as a sub-human nuisance nowadays, possibly because there are so many 'accidental' LLs who aren't as divorced from their properties as professional LLs tend to be (for a professional LL it's an investment, for an amateur it's probably once been their home, and so on). I also think that letting agents are a problem - they seem to delight in creating all of these potential problems which ultimately lead ot more money in their pockets. I also feel really strongly that a lot of tenant/LL issues occur because these middlemen don't do their jobs properly, so better regulation here would help. Lets be realistic here, I'm sure the vast majority of tenants and LLs are perfectly fine, but it's like everything, the fear of the minority gets blown out of proportion and affects everyone.

I would be quite happy to meet with a potential LL in my current home, so that they could see how it's kept, and they could meet and talk to me. The problem with forms is that they're very 'black and white', and people aren't always so, although of course the formal information is necessary too. I do think that bringing back a bit of the human in the LL/T relationship would help a lot. There are always going to be scammers and I'm not sure how anyone can protect themselves against someone who's determined to rip them off, but meeting someone can go a long way to assuaging fears on both sides. I don't want my LL to become my new best friend, but I'm quite happy to meet you to show that I've got a life, and furniture, and a job, and I'm not likely to disappear in the middle of the night.

The problem too is that it's an issue that's been affected by wider policies - without wanting to sound prejudiced, I wonder whether the increase in 'problem' tenants has come about partly because of the increase in more vulnerable people who once wouldn't have entered the private rental sector at all. I do think the government needs to take a little more responsibility for this, although of course they won't.

neverdespairgirl

clutton wrote: »

since this site has been registerd with the data commissioner i am sure these questions were asked of the company before registration was granted....

Are you sure?

I had to register (and I have to pay my £35-ish a year) because of my job. No-one asked anything at all.

DVardysShadow

clutton wrote: »

... seems like we ALL dislike disclosure of data......

It's so very Stasi and New Labour.

None of these database ideas are unmitigated good - and a lot of them cause harm on the same scale as the claimed good.

For example the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act was intended to allow people to move on from mistakes they made in their lives. After the murder of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, the Act has been significantly undone - with the CRB and the police left free to pass on any old tittle tattle which can do significant damage to peoples lives. A terrible memorial to 2 little girls, that parents are not allowed to photograph their children in the school play and everyone has to be CRB checked even to go on to school premises.

There is a thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1620163 in the employment forum which should send a chill down the spine about the power of tittle tattle to destroy someone's future career prospects.

Now, this database of tenants is full of tittle tattle. That is the contents, just tittle tattle. It is tittle tattle, because it is unverified allegations from Landlords - and presumably it is free to enter data.

Go with the old methods. Sue and win your case. Even if the Landlord cannot claim a penny, at least the CCJ register will show allegations which have stood up in court - it is not cheap to do - but then people should not be harmed by cheap tittle tattle.

tbs624

1. Tenants may like to note post 4 in this thread, on the subject of a paragraph added to the LRS site instigator's TAs.

2. Tenants may also find it interesting to go through the FAQs on the LRS website.

3. PasturesNew commented on the fact that the LRS Privacy Policy was dated 2005 - this may be because there was a previous incarnation of the database Landlordsdata.com? ( archives can be found online - using co.uk rather than .com)


4. ARLA suggested a "bad" LL/T database (DART) but it failed to get the go ahead, primarily because of DPA concerns AFIAA - here's a related news release.