Criminal because my train was late?

Livingthedream

moonrakerz wrote: »

I would suggest the OP goes to a dedicated rail forum - some of the advice given already is, shall we say, misleading !

Try:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/

Cheers, moonrakerz, another 10 page debate on 2 advance tickets = 1 journey, oh well Yorkie will be happy. :rotfl:

But to be fair, it is a valid point, you will get a lot of correct advice from this forum on your problem.

FARE-COP

Let's start with retrospective advice, which might help to avoid problems for others in the future:

The best thing that anyone can do in this situation when asking for advice from rail staff about a particular ticket, ask the member of staff concerned to endiorse the BACK of your ticket with their name & staff number. This MUST be on the back of a ticket

If staff are confident in their advice they will do so and there is then no dispute later as to whether you were given such advice or not.

If they will not, you can be sure that the advice is probably innaccurate and should be treated with scepticism.

The next thing to consider is that this must not be confused with a penalty fare. An unpaid fare notice is not something that IPFAS can deal with and RPSS were wrong to refer directly to them.

If a Penalty Fare is issued and appealed RPSS must respond to the appeal with a rejection before it can be taken up by IPFAS.

The poster who suggested that the staff on the final train was in breach of CoC in not accepting the ticket because of a claim of previous advice is not correct. The staff on that train only had the OPs word for what had occurred and no evidence to suggest that acceptance of the ticket had been authorised.

National CoC 25 makes clear that neither the TOCs, the public or Police have any authority to arbitrarily vary the CoC however, had an informal authority been given in writing with evidence of the staff dealing with the problem, then it would not have been questioned.

zzip00

Thank you all for your replies

From all of the opinions, there is a real mixed bag and it is still hard to work out what I should do.

I am incline to agree with the lack of clarity around condition 19 and it looks like this can be argued either way. Has anyone autually contested the liability based on condition 19 and what was your outcome?

anewman

Ah I'm glad I use the car instead of the train now. Penalty fare this, expected to pay the full fare and reclaim the cheap one you booked in advance. What a load of BS. The Gestapo are employed for fare revenue protection now then?!

Takoda

Tell you what I'm fed up with in Britain these days...

Staff members (not just rail) who tell you something only to have it COMPLETELY contradicted by the next staff member you speak to. Then subsequent people will either agree or disagree with them on a completely random basis!!!

Even simple things take many phone calls to sort out and sometimes think that if I hear the phrase "Ohhh they shouldn't have told you THAT!" just one more time I'll explode.

People simply don't do their jobs properly! Muppets.

Worst ones - utility companies, BT, anyone to do with transport, NHS the list goes on.

Norman-B

Hintza wrote: »

Thank goodness I don't have to suffer this sort of humiliation these days.

I would probably have told the inspector to take a hike and take my chances with the police.

I hope you get this sorted out OP. Good luck.

I'm with you on the above! I would have been happy to 'chat' with Police on this.

taffy056

Takoda wrote: »

Tell you what I'm fed up with in Britain these days...

Do you think its different elsewhere ? As someone who has lived in many countries and dealt with the red tape there, we are no worse, you should try living outside the uk instead of moaning and running the place down.

In regards to this situation, can't you claim off your credit card as well for services not provided ? It is shocking the situation, hope you can get it sorted OP

zzip00

Thanks to everyone for all opinions.
The point is that, like many people nowadays, I bought the cheaper 'advance' tickets because I simply cannot afford to travel by train full price. I specifically pointed out the type of ticket to the Customer Service staff member in Norwich because I understood I was supposed to be on the specific Peterborough to York train and was told,'No problem, just jump on the next one, they'll know there's been delays and you'll be fine.' I also stated that I couldn't afford to pay again and would have to phone for a lift from family or try to find a coach if I had to and the above was reiterated. There was an independant witness, an Australian lady, who witnessed the CS Norwich conversation and the conversation with the penalty fare issuer. She gave me her e-mail address and contact details as she was shocked at the whole affair. For me it's a case of right and wrong and to simply say 'pay it and learn your lesson' assumes that I am in the wrong for following staff advice and that I have the money to 'just pay it.' in the first place. I don't, and I am worried sick of the consequences of all this. Also, tickets for the other part of the journey weren't in my wallett, the conductor took them and didn't give me any receipt, even though I asked for one. The appeal address on the tickets was the wrong address, with no telephone number, and they are now writing to me adding administration fees with the threat of more to come if I don't pay up now. I feel that I was induced into getting on the second train. What was I supposed to do more than check with train staff before getting on it? Please no more 'pay up now' advice, I cannot afford to and I am now being branded a criminal when I turned up well in advance, allowed over 40 minutes between connections just in case it was running a little late and then followed staff advice. I didn't try and dodge any fares and to suggest that I have been 'very lucky' seems more than a little flippant and must have been posted by someone who can afford to carry the kind of cash requested with them (£56 for Peterborough to York, now £71 with admin fees, as opposed to £38 for the whole return journey) whereas I genuinely don't have that and won't have that amount spare this month. Good luck to you if you have, but where do I turn to please?

Livingthedream

zzip00,You need to post this on the UK Rail Forum/fares as stated by moonrakerz and myself, the guys on that forum know NRcoc's and section 19 off by heart, it's been debated so many times before. They will tell you exactly how to reply to this scenario.

But for you knowledge I too believe that 2 advance tickets = 1 journey and have used this before in my own defence to an onboard train manager, but whether this would work in a magistrates court is another thing.

FARE-COP

zzip00 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for all opinions.
The point is that, like many people nowadays, I bought the cheaper 'advance' tickets because I simply cannot afford to travel by train full price. I specifically pointed out the type of ticket to the Customer Service staff member in Norwich because I understood I was supposed to be on the specific Peterborough to York train and was told,'No problem, just jump on the next one, they'll know there's been delays and you'll be fine.' I also stated that I couldn't afford to pay again and would have to phone for a lift from family or try to find a coach if I had to and the above was reiterated. There was an independant witness, an Australian lady, who witnessed the CS Norwich conversation and the conversation with the penalty fare issuer. She gave me her e-mail address and contact details as she was shocked at the whole affair. For me it's a case of right and wrong and to simply say 'pay it and learn your lesson' assumes that I am in the wrong for following staff advice and that I have the money to 'just pay it.' in the first place. I don't, and I am worried sick of the consequences of all this. Also, tickets for the other part of the journey weren't in my wallett, the conductor took them and didn't give me any receipt, even though I asked for one. The appeal address on the tickets was the wrong address, with no telephone number, and they are now writing to me adding administration fees with the threat of more to come if I don't pay up now. I feel that I was induced into getting on the second train. What was I supposed to do more than check with train staff before getting on it? Please no more 'pay up now' advice, I cannot afford to and I am now being branded a criminal when I turned up well in advance, allowed over 40 minutes between connections just in case it was running a little late and then followed staff advice. I didn't try and dodge any fares and to suggest that I have been 'very lucky' seems more than a little flippant and must have been posted by someone who can afford to carry the kind of cash requested with them (£56 for Peterborough to York, now £71 with admin fees, as opposed to £38 for the whole return journey) whereas I genuinely don't have that and won't have that amount spare this month. Good luck to you if you have, but where do I turn to please?

I think that if you put your case by letter as eloquently as you have made this post, you may find that you get the desired result

In addition to the site at http://www.railforums.co.uk/ that moonrakers has referred to, you might also look at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/public-transport-trains-tubes/ where a wealth of advice regarding such matters as fares, offences and remedies can also be found.