Help Understanding HMO (House under multiple occupation)

MonkeyKong007

Me and my girlfriend are looking for a place to rent and hoping to share a room in a house and split the rent (of that room) half and half.

I spoke to a landlord who said if we were to do this in his house it would be breaking hmo guidelines...

Do certain houses have a limit on how many people can live in them and would that prevent me and my girlfriend sharing a room and rent and not needing to rent another room inside the property to keep within the guidelines.

An example is... we hope to rent a three bedroom house, share one room and find other people to rent the other two rooms thus - four people sharing a three bedroom house. is this allowed?

Thanks (Hope this is understandable!)

Dan

TJ27

Hi Dan, I'm a council officer who's been dealing with HMO's for about six years now. I am guessing that your landlord is telling you that the house will become an HMO if you take on additional tenants.

At the moment, if you and your girlfriend live together as if a married couple in a house, it is not classified as an HMO. (House in Multiple Occupation.)

If you take on extra people, then the house will become an HMO. (Unless they are related to you.)

Certain rules apply to HMO's which your landlord would have to comply with, particularly in relation to means of escape from fire. This might cost him quite a lot of money.

I doubt that it's anything to do with overcrowding issues.

kat21

I think the idea your proposing could lead to all kinds of problems and would seriously think again. If you are a tenant and you pay a landlord rent and you intend to live on those premises and sublet to somebody else then you would have to draw up leases to protect yourselfs for example damage caused by the other tenants whom see you as the landlord. Also the issue of housing disrepair if that should happen.Your landlord is leasing to you if you sublet then that makes you responsible to who ever you sublet too, plus of course you have to get permission from your landlord to do this but, if you exceed the limit for the type of dwelling that you live in then there could be other liability issues such as fire regulations which may need to be amended. The other issue to take into account is insurance policy too. House sharing is a different issue and that is where you and your friends get together as a group to become tenants and perhaps that route might be better some students do this. perhaps a property letting agency might be the best approach if you can find sufficient numbers, if your aim is to reduce the over all costs. dont go down the route of subletting it can only end in tears.
kat21

TJ27

kat21 wrote:

House sharing is a different issue and that is where you and your friends get together as a group to become tenants and perhaps that route might be better some students do this.
kat21

Not anymore it's not. Well it's different from a responsibilities point of view but not an enforcement point of view. The definition of what constitutes a household has changed. This in turn has made a difference to what is classed as an HMO. Even shared student houses are now HMO's. Even if they all know each other, share facilities, are on the same course, came together, etc.

Many HMO's are now licenceable (but not all) and the fine for not licencing a licenceable HMO is a maximum of twenty grand. That's another reason why your landlord might be reluctant for his house to become an HMO.

sukey13

The guidelines for HMOs are different from council to council you need to talk to your local council's environmental health officer.

I believe in most areas that if the building is two story not three story HMO regs currently do not apply, that may change in the future.

amboy

The advice from TJ27 is spot on and I would assume his reasoning is correct

TJ27

sukey13 wrote:

I believe in most areas that if the building is two story not three story HMO regs currently do not apply, that may change in the future.

HMO licencing criteria may depend on whether a house is 2 or 3 storey. But an HMO is an HMO is an HMO and the regs do apply. It might even be a single storey bungalow, or even a flat in multiple occupation. We've enforced HMO legislation on single flats with two tenants, although it's pretty unusual.

However, means of escape from fire requirements are much more onerous for three storey HMO's. This is completely understandable when you see the statistics regarding fire incidents in HMO's. An overwhelming majority of people who die in 3 storey HMO fires had rooms on the top floor.

This is why my council are now targeting three storey shared houses. Under the new laws, most are now HMO's where previously they might not have been.

amboy

I would assume the majority of LA would target these hig risk houses first, I run 2 myself and one is up to regs about 5 years ago, however I a interested to see what else they will be looking for in terms of fire safety.

Also how strict is your LA in enforcing the OTT (IMO) wash basins in every bedroom? This aspect is only good news for plumbers but even the ones I have spoken to say it will be a knghtmare getting wastes to front of properties.

TJ27

Personally I think that the ruling of a basin in every bedroom is absolutely ridiculous, as do most other surveyors I know.

Luckily that rule only applies in England. Here in Wales, the Welsh Assembly Government relaxed that rule. We do ask for separate WC's and such but not basins in every bedroom.

Yes, we usually do target high risk properties first.

You can always trust us Welsh people to see sense.

In terms of fire safety, for a 3 storey HMO you basically need half hour protection to many areas. So ceilings need to be half inch plbd (or some other half hour protection), many doors need to be fire doors, you need certain extinguishers and blankets, you also need a type L2 fire alarm. So it's a fair bit og money. It's best to phone your local council and just ask though.

amboy

Thanks for that thats made me feel a whole lot better

Lets just hope they realise this is ott when they come to review

clutton_2

one council i spoke to in the south west, said they were advising landlords that they were not going to enforce the washbasin nonsense for 5 years, in the hope that the govt changed, and that the rules were changed.

one council in the north west is using selective licensing to enforce licensing on ALL tenanted property of whatever size in particular postcode areas.

one council on the east coast is compulsory licensing all HMO's irrespective of how many storeys the premises have.

whilst the Act was very simple in its definition of what is a HMO and whihc ones need licensing, various local authorities have played havoc with the original definition, and gone their own way.

the only way is to talk to the HMO officer of the individual council you are interested in.

It is now 5 months since registration was meant to happen and i learned this week that Bristol City Council has had less than 1/4 of the expected applications - presumable the "expected" ones do not include those scum landlords who the Act is meant to find.