Will I get a criminal record for train far evasion?

sassy_one

It depends OP.

Were you arrested and read your rights?

If you were arrested, were you taken to Police Custody and formally interviewed under Police Caution and tape recorded?

If yes to both, after interview, I would guess you were given Police Bail pending charge or a decision being made by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS)

Unless you were given Caution at the time of being released or have returned to the Police station to receive a formal Police Caution, then the answer is a happy, simply, NO!

It sounds to me as you may have got away with a simple 'Court Fine' as it were, feel lucky!

never try to avoid a Rail Fare, most train companies WILL request the Police prosecute in order to show others that they will and as you have learned, for such a small amount too!

anewman

There was a case in leeds a few years back about someone who had just moved house and therefore caught the train one stop further away. When they bought their ticket, out of rote they asked for the ticket from the a station after they got on which cost pennies difference. When this was highlighted to them they offered to pay the difference, but were taken to court I believe.

sassy_one

When I use to use trains daily years back, there was one guy who had got on at Newport and was only going to Cardiff, he did not have a ticket upone the conductor requesting to see it, and after a good old arguement between this guy and the conductor thats was that.

Until he got to Cardiff and there were 3 Police officers that greeted him on leaving the train.


One time when I was mugged on a train, and I had no money, my ticket was also taken, even though the guy working on the train new what had happened if said he would exercise his powers, he asked me for my address and he wrote me a fixed ticket out on the train, that required payment within 7 Days but I could continue to travel on that trip.
I paid the ticket and that was that.


However, I do know that they are very hot on people claiming to be children (under 15) to get cheaper fares and also hiding in the toilet use to be a favourite I noticed when on them!

Needless to say, be it £1 or £100, they will call the Police, and you will look very, very small being removed for such a stupid thing.
It's simple, if you can't afford the ticket, don't get on the train.

It really made me fed up people trying to avoid getting a ticket when I had paid £40-£50 a day to use the train, and they just were riding scot free!!

Patrick20

So the train companies aren't sending conductors round the trains or giving you a means of payment and instead are waiting till you are at your destination to surprise you with a fine? My station is manned but sometimes I can be standing at the window waiting for someone to serve me and they hide in their office. Occasionally its about 30 seconds before the train leaves so I have to make a decision of whether to catch this train or wait to be served. Obviously I catch the train and most of the time the conductor comes round. A little while ago I found out that if I got on at a manned station and don't buy a ticket prior to the journey starting then the conductor charges me an extra £1(on a £3 journey). Now if the conductor doesn't come round either and I get to my destination I am then meant to spend what can be valuble time waiting for a ticket i should have gotten either at the departing station or on the train? They wonder why there is such a big problem with people avoiding paying but I think that most of that is just people being opportunists. How many of us can honestly say that they would own up and pay when facing a free train ride? If they want more people to pay all they have to do is make sure the conductors are on the trains and the stations are manned so that people can pay conveniently.

sassy_one

Patrick20 wrote: »

So the train companies aren't sending conductors round the trains or giving you a means of payment and instead are waiting till you are at your destination to surprise you with a fine? My station is manned but sometimes I can be standing at the window waiting for someone to serve me and they hide in their office. Occasionally its about 30 seconds before the train leaves so I have to make a decision of whether to catch this train or wait to be served. Obviously I catch the train and most of the time the conductor comes round. A little while ago I found out that if I got on at a manned station and don't buy a ticket prior to the journey starting then the conductor charges me an extra £1(on a £3 journey). Now if the conductor doesn't come round either and I get to my destination I am then meant to spend what can be valuble time waiting for a ticket i should have gotten either at the departing station or on the train? They wonder why there is such a big problem with people avoiding paying but I think that most of that is just people being opportunists. How many of us can honestly say that they would own up and pay when facing a free train ride? If they want more people to pay all they have to do is make sure the conductors are on the trains and the stations are manned so that people can pay conveniently.

May be because they are to busy dealing with people tryinga void the fares?

Then again, may be there short staffed and if they put more staff on and put your fare up, i would guess you wouldn't be happy either way?

Fact is, you should start your trip and leave time for any delays such as buying a ticket, or book on line and collect your tickets, it's so simple these days too do!

Avoiding a fare though isn't a option, they do catch and they will catch you.

You might get away with it once, may be twice but you will get caught in the end and the trip will cost you a lot more than money, depending on what the Police decide to do.

I used trains for 5 years, every day but not Christmas Day or boxing day, not once did I get on a train without buying a ticket, not once.

If I can do it, anyone can, no excuses!

Hadeon

standardman

I have read & re-read your post several times in an attempt to clearly understand the situation on the basis of the information you have provided.

Several questions spring to mind:-

1. How, where & when do you normally pay for your ticket on your 'usual train' journey to work?

2. At your desination station, being already late for work, why the need to deviate & visit a cash machine to 'check your balance' instead of going straight to the ticket desk(s) / machines to pay?

3. I am also intrigued as to why BTP were seemingly acting as ticket inspectors & appeared to randomly single you out on this occassion.

To answer your main query, yes you end up with a criminal record if you plead guilty, or having pleaded not guilty,are found guilty following trial.

standardman

Thanks everyone for the replies.

no1catman wrote: »

Even a 'caution' maybe considered a criminal record.
Some jobs may include the question about convictions and cautions, excluding traffic offences. I don't think this is the latter.
Sometimes, the immediate need, overwhelmes the downside. Sadly, you should have waited ....
Get legal advice, i.e. is it possible to plead innocent and win!??

Jacey53 wrote: »

Hi - I think you need to take legal advice

If you have been sent a summons with a court date on then a criminal prosecution has started - so in that case if you plead guilty you will have a criminal conviction.

If you plead not guilty then the case will be adjourned for trial. If you are convicted you will have a criminal conviction. If you are aquitted you will not. I assume from your post that you admit that you travelled without a ticket? If so, it is only the intent that could be in dispute - but do check that.

You need to check the papers you have received - don't just ignore the date as the case could be proved in your absence (I think - I'm not always sure which offences this applies to).

A legal rep will be able to advise you on whether a caution could be proposed, and the suitability of a simple caution or conditional caution to your circumstances. It may have consequences for your employment etc

Try citizens advice first? or a quick talk with a criminal lawyer?

I'll try citizens advice bureau. They don't give you a great deal of time, but it's worth a shot. I think the intent thing is why I was charged rather than cautioned, which is odd because he said at the end 'you haven't showed intent'

sassy-one wrote: »

It depends OP.

Were you arrested and read your rights?

If you were arrested, were you taken to Police Custody and formally interviewed under Police Caution and tape recorded?

If yes to both, after interview, I would guess you were given Police Bail pending charge or a decision being made by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS)

Unless you were given Caution at the time of being released or have returned to the Police station to receive a formal Police Caution, then the answer is a happy, simply, NO!

It sounds to me as you may have got away with a simple 'Court Fine' as it were, feel lucky!

never try to avoid a Rail Fare, most train companies WILL request the Police prosecute in order to show others that they will and as you have learned, for such a small amount too!

I was read my rights but just interviewed standing on the street outside the station. There was no recording, but he wrote everything down on a notepad. So do you think I'll have a criminal record from this or just the fine?

standardman

Hadeon wrote: »

standardman

I have read & re-read your post several times in an attempt to clearly understand the situation on the basis of the information you have provided.

Several questions spring to mind:-

1. How, where & when do you normally pay for your ticket on your 'usual train' journey to work?

2. At your desination station, being already late for work, why the need to deviate & visit a cash machine to 'check your balance' instead of going straight to the ticket desk(s) / machines to pay?

3. I am also intrigued as to why BTP were seemingly acting as ticket inspectors & appeared to randomly single you out on this occassion.

To answer your main query, yes you end up with a criminal record if you plead guilty, or having pleaded not guilty,are found guilty following trial.

I usually pay on the train with the conductor. Sometimes his card machine won't be working so I'll queue at the barrier when I reach the destination, or use the machine.

I had some change on me but I'd rather have used my card, just checking that I had something in my account to pay with.

Not sure on that one, do they do random patrols on stops? Don't think I've seen them since or before, but I guess I wouldn't notice them unless they were talking to me.

I see. If I plead not guilty, are the court fees going to mount?

Patrick20

sassy-one wrote: »

May be because they are to busy dealing with people tryinga void the fares?

Then again, may be there short staffed and if they put more staff on and put your fare up, i would guess you wouldn't be happy either way?

Fact is, you should start your trip and leave time for any delays such as buying a ticket, or book on line and collect your tickets, it's so simple these days too do!

Avoiding a fare though isn't a option, they do catch and they will catch you.

You might get away with it once, may be twice but you will get caught in the end and the trip will cost you a lot more than money, depending on what the Police decide to do.

I used trains for 5 years, every day but not Christmas Day or boxing day, not once did I get on a train without buying a ticket, not once.

If I can do it, anyone can, no excuses!

Sometimes I wonder if people just argue for the sake of it and don't actually think about what i said.

Firstly, because they are too busy catching people who avoid the fares? The way to catch people who aren't paying is to get the conductor to go around the train and inspect tickets and let the people who need a ticket to get one. I am positive that most of the people who don't buy a ticket are just opportunists and only a small percentage are people who would hide to avoid paying. Lets face it this isn't about what you or I would do in the situation. Its about the majority of the british public. And I have a feeling that they wouldnt go out of their way to buy a ticket when they have essentially got that ride for free. We all love a good freebie and that is what they would consider it as. I doubt anyone wants to regularly deprive the train companies of revenue. But to criminalize someone after putting the temptation in front of them to commit the crime is wrong.

Ps. As for them putting their prices up you are quite right i'd be angry. Thats because I think the fares are too expensive right now. I was making a journey a few days ago between Glasgow and Dumfries. I checked the price of a train ticket and it cost £23 for a return ticket. I then checked a bus service that does the same journey and found out that it cost £7 each way. Thats £14. They take about the same time aswell.

pipsi_2

It seems ridiculous that you're having to go through all of this for a £4something train ticket. I'm surprised the policeman didn't just give you a fine of say £30 to pay and send you on your way. It seems like an awful waste of money and court time etc given the amount of the ticket, whatever the circumstances. I get your point about being in a rush, it's a shame the policeman didn't. If he had just issued you with an on the spot fine you would have learnt your lesson and got on with your day and then written a complaint about the lack of a ticket machine/conductor on the train etc.