Redundancy Cancellation

Frootbat_2

Need to get some help on this one as I'm not sure where I stand

I have been told I am being made redundant, currently 2 weeks into the 3 months notice period, i'm quite happy to be made redundant for various reasons, but the person i work with has potentially found another job and will be leaving, so can the company cancel the redundancy?

thanks for any help

highguyuk

Companies can pretty much do as they want - they just have to do the paperwork behind the decision!

By your post, I'm guessing 2 of you are at risk of redundancy for 1 position? Or have you gone through the at risk process already and now you are into your formal notice period?

Either way, your redundancy could be cancelled if they wished.

Frootbat_2

I have been given written confirmation redundancy accepted detailing of dates amounts, company car details etc

does this not make this in essence a contract that could only be retracted if both parties agreed?

getmore4less

I used to think that the company had to follow through since to remove an agreed notice period requires mutal agreemnt

However during a redundancy the company withdrew the offer of redunancy and said that the person would no longer get redundancy if they left but could still leave as scheduled.

ACAS and legal advice agreed with this unless another job offer had allready been accepted this would be good reason not to accept any new position or the old one back

However some people on here are sure that once redunancy notice is given that it they have to follow through unless you agree to stay.

The case made was not conclusive(to me) but worth considering this view may be correct, I would certainly persue this angle further next time.

Maybe our new contributer has a legal opinion from their experience.

SarEl

Legal opinion is very clear on this one. An employer may withdraw a redundancy notice right up until the last breath - in other words the minute before your contract is terminated. Redundancy is an "involuntary termination" on both sides (or at least that is how the law looks at it) - the employer does not want to make people redundant and the employee does not want to be made redundant. On this basis it is not a mutually agreed basis as, say, ordinary notice would be considered. If you still wanted to leave you could do so - but without any redundancy payment (which may colour your view of leaving ).

If you remained on notice of redundancy and then got another job during the notice period, different rules apply and you would be able to serve "counter-notice" on the employer to leave, preserving your redundancy payment (but obviously not any balance of wages for the full notice period).

getmore4less

Thanks,

SarEl wrote: »

If you remained on notice of redundancy and then got another job during the notice period, different rules apply and you would be able to serve "counter-notice" on the employer to leave, preserving your redundancy payment (but obviously not any balance of wages for the full notice period).

Why can't the employee just give counter notice that terminates the same day as original notice and preserve full payments?

How would a future termination with PILON be affected?

SarEl

getmore4less wrote: »

Thanks,



Why can't the employee just give counter notice that terminates the same day as original notice and preserve full payments?

How would a future termination with PILON be affected?

An employee cannot give counter notice unless they have another job to go to. If they have got another job to go to then they can indeed give counter-notice in the way you suggest (although most would wish to go as soon as they could to make sure they kept the job offered). But not otherwise.

I am not clear what you mean by the second question, but I think you mean, what would happen if the employee got PILON instead of working their notice period. Well it's obvious - there isn't a "future termination". PILON is payment instead of notice. So if an employer says, " you are redundant, leave on Friday, and we will pay you XX weeks PILON" then your contract terminates on Friday - not when the PILON runs out.

getmore4less

SarEl wrote: »

I am not clear what you mean by the second question, but I think you mean, what would happen if the employee got PILON instead of working their notice period. Well it's obvious - there isn't a "future termination". PILON is payment instead of notice. So if an employer says, " you are redundant, leave on Friday, and we will pay you XX weeks PILON" then your contract terminates on Friday - not when the PILON runs out.

It is not uncomon for an employer to set termination dates in the future and pay PILON as part of the package.

In my case I had 2 months warning to enable international handovers.
Everyone was given PILON in the package but different termination dates as the businees required.

SarEl

getmore4less wrote: »

It is not uncomon for an employer to set termination dates in the future and pay PILON as part of the package.

In my case I had 2 months warning to enable international handovers.
Everyone was given PILON in the package but different termination dates as the businees required.

Actually, that isn't all that common. But it's still the case that the PILON (pay in lieu of notice) is instead of working the notice. So, for example, lets assume that you were given notice of redundancy in January, required to work January to March, and given PILON for April and May. Your contract ends in March, not May.

But and this is a fairly big but, it depends on what you mean by being given notice. 2 months "warning" isn't "notice". So if they told you in January that redundancies are looming and your job has been selected, but do not issue formal notice of redundancy until March, then the relevant period during which you can serve counter-notice is only that period during which you at at work, and under formal notice of redundancy. Some employers might serve formal notice earlier than required, but it is the formal notice period that applies only. You still cannot serve counter-notice during your period of PILON because your contract has already been terminated.

But none of this changes the basic position that you cannot serve counter-notice unless you have a job to go to, and during the notice period (but not any period of PILON) the employer can withdraw that notice.

happywarmgun

Frootbat wrote: »

Need to get some help on this one as I'm not sure where I stand

I have been told I am being made redundant, currently 2 weeks into the 3 months notice period, i'm quite happy to be made redundant for various reasons, but the person i work with has potentially found another job and will be leaving, so can the company cancel the redundancy?

thanks for any help

It depends on your contract and the paperwork you have been given - in my case I had a 'notice of dismissal by reason of redundancy'. In my contract if either party gave notice to the other and then changed their minds it was in the gift of the other without any obligation as to whether they accepted the reverse. Once I got my notice of dismissal I therefore knew they couldn't force me to stay no matter what happened. Read your original contact and see if it says similar...

SarEl

happywarmgun wrote: »

It depends on your contract and the paperwork you have been given - in my case I had a 'notice of dismissal by reason of redundancy'. In my contract if either party gave notice to the other and then changed their minds it was in the gift of the other without any obligation as to whether they accepted the reverse. Once I got my notice of dismissal I therefore knew they couldn't force me to stay no matter what happened. Read your original contact and see if it says similar...

That would be an exceptionally unusual clause in a contract - I have certainly never seen one before, nor even heard of one. It would be interesting to see how it held up in law under redundancy terms if it were challenged.