Urgent advice needed on lighting in new extension / building regs

boots_babe

Hi,

We're in the process of building an extension, above our existing attached double garage. This extension will house a new master bedroom and en-suite bathroom.

Today we've had the electrician around, and he's told us he needs to know today where we want the lights in the bedroom. We had planned to look into this this week, as we hadn't been made aware it was imminent so have been caught off guard.

Instead of having a standard height ceiling and loft space above, we are having the roofspace all open to a vaulted ceiling, so the ceiling is like an upside down V, with a bar running along the central part i.e.
_
/ \

We had wanted a series of halogen spotlights in the ceiling, with most of them being on the sloped parts of the roof (in the centre flat part we are having a ceiling fan).

However the building inspector has told us we are not allowed to have more than just 2 lights on the sloping parts of the roof - something to do with the fact that the holes we need to make in the insulation to place the lights will reduce the energy efficiency.

I am wanting to know if we have any options here, as this has completely spoiled our plans. Lighting is very important and we want to get it right. But based on our inspector, we can't have halogen spotlights (well we can have 2, but that would look silly in a 5m x 7m room), and are stuck with wall lights or a combined central ceiling fan/light unit. Neither of which we want.

I can't quite figure out what angle the inspector is looking at this from - I can only think that he needs to ensure that the new extension does not reduce the overall energy efficiency of the house. However we've just had a new boiler installed (replacing our 25 year old ancient, inefficient one) with an A rated one, so surely this would more than compensate for these lights.

Is there anything we can do in this situation, can we negotiate, or are we just stuck and will have to have just wall lights?

We need to know what we're doing asap today as the electrician has to complete his work before the building can proceed with the rest of the insulation and plasterboarding. Hence the panic :eek:

KillerWatt

boots_babe wrote: »

can we negotiate

You can't negotiate with building control, what they say goes if you want it signed off.

Here's what you do though.....

The sparkie wants to know where you want your downlighters so he can run the cables. Tell the sparkie you want him to fit pendants where your downlighters are going, and this will satisfy building control.

Once building control are happy, remove the pendants and replace them with your downlighters.

A pendant fitting is no more than £2 or so from the likes of B&Q, so you won't be wasting too much money when you ditch them.

boots_babe

Hi KillerWatt,

Thanks for taking the time to read my long post and reply.

I like the spirit of your suggestion, but I don't think it will work. As it's not the type of lighting that the inspector is objecting to (wall lights v halogen spots), it's the location. We wanted halogen spots and we can't have those in the walls, they need to be on the ceiling and he won't let us have more than 2 ceiling lights. So it won't really work for us unfortunately.

I know there need to be rules and regulations but I really can't see why this is a particular issue. We're both upset as it'll ruin the room for us.

System

this is something that should have been accounted for on the building warrant drawings, if they are noted on the approved plans then building control can't object, however if you are changing the warrant drawings you will struggle to argue the point - although i suspect this wasn't on the original drawings otherwise you wouldn't be reducing the insulation value of the roof by installing lights!

muckybutt

Why dont you go for surface mounted halogen spots http://www.thelightingsuperstore.co.uk/product.asp?productid=30037 and extra ones http://www.thelightingsuperstore.co.uk/product.asp?productid=30039

20W so they'll be bright enough, then recess them when its signed off.

phill99

What killerwatt is suggesting is do whatever the B I wants to get the work signed off, then once you have received approval, change it to the way you want it.

boots_babe

Hi phill99,

If we did that we'd have to replaster everything afterwards though? Plus I don't think our electrician is the sort of guy that would happily evade the regulations. He's sat and moaned with us about how ridiculous some of the regs are nowadays, but he is straight and by the book.

The other lights suggested...I don't think that will help. As the problem isn't having the type of lighting we want, it's the location. So it'd make no difference if we have different types of lighting installed initially, then change it later to what we want. The problem is we aren't even allowed to have the wiring for lights in the sloped part of the ceiling. I still don't know why!

No the lighting wasn't on the approved plan, we were told it wasn't necessary :-(

Well it's sounding more and more as though there is no way to compromise with the building inspector, which is really upsetting. Seems as though we are stuck with what he says and can't appeal or anything. I can't believe we've gone to all the expense and trouble of building the extension only to be told we have to have a specific sort of lighing which will spoil the effect of the room we were after.

I suppose I should be grateful we are actually allowed a ceiling fan though, as that WOULD be awful if they said no to that.

System

did you employ an architect to do the drawings??
not sure why they told you the electrics didn't have to appear on the plan, usually an integral part of the warrant application...

can you talk us through the ceiling build up, or post a detail of it, there may be a good reason not to break the ceiling, if for example you have a vapour control layer on the plasterboard.
also, depending on your head height, you could strap the ceiling and put new plasterboard over the top to create a void where the lights would have no connection to the roof construction

KillerWatt

It's not the amount of lights that BC are objecting to, it is the amount of insulation you will have to remove in order to fit them safely.

If you do what I said with the pendants, you won't have any making good to do afterwards as the hole for the downlighter will be considerably larger than the holes made by the screws holding the pendant in place.

boots_babe

Hi,

Yes we had an architect to do the intial drawings for the planning application, then further details for the building regs.

I'm not too sure on the specifics of the ceiling build up. So far we have standard tiles outside on a layer of roof felt, then timber struts, and then we are going to have 100mm Kingspan, then plasterboard. That is it as far as I know.

iamcornholio

Forming holes in the insulated roof will marginally reduce its thermal efficiency, but depending on the thickness of the insulation it may not reduce the overall heat loss of the room.

The BCO is being a numpty. You could put a massive Velux window in the roof and he would accept this - despite it causing more heat loss than a few holes for lights.

Either have a calculation done to prove that heat loss is acceptable, or put the wiring in, cover it up and fit a single light bulb in the middle of the room. Then when its all signed off, install the lights you want