Help with DSD

maggied_2

Hello all

Although this isn't strictly CSA related some of you know me on here.

I have a problem and however I put it I'm going to sound awful but please bear with me.

My OH has a 9yo DD from a previous relationship. The ex is a total nightmare and OH has alreaday been in court with her once ths year over contact. Due to her breaking it recently he's going back again in a few weeks.

I won't go into all that but it's turned nasty again example messages:

(after OH turned up to collect his DD at the correct time only to find her mum had taken her out) "have you paid my CSA" (it goes in on the same day every month.....plus I'm sure she has phone/internet banking!!). When he didn't reply, 10 minutes later "I wouldn't ignore me if I was you".

(the other day after telling OH to collect DD from nursery at 6 - at the last minute he got this) "DD needs collecting from XX at 5 or you won't be having her tonight"

Anyway, that's all logistics. What I'm really concerned about is his DD and her attitude towards me.

After an entire weekend of snarling, being spoken to through teeth, tantrums over the smallest thing it transpired that X has been seriously badmouthing me to DSD. This is not a surprise but it's what she's been saying.

She has told DSD that the court has said that I am not allowed to be on my own with her and that I am not allowed to tell her off - I assume there is more but this is what we managed to glean. (incidentally this is untrue - I'm not even mentioned on the court order....all it lays out is a contact schedule).

OH had a word with her upstairs and she came down and gave me an apology and we had a long chat, hugged it out etc etc.

However there was more 'kicking off' the next morning over nothing - her dad told her she needed to have her school top ironed before she left so we had tears and screaming and shouting.

I know that this situation must be causing her so much pain but it's also making the weekends she's with us unbearable. I used to have such a good relationship with her (that I worked very hard to have!) and that feels like it's gone completely.

I don't want to be at loggerheads with a little girl but neither do I want to spend my weekends being shouted at, snarled at etc.

What do I do? My OH is good at presenting a united front with me (and I don't mean taking my side over his daughter's) but this really can't continue. There is absolutely no point in talking to X.

We have DSD for 2 weeks during the summer holidays (OH now does week on / week off suring school holidays) and because of various reasons we are sorting the childcare out between us and family - so I'll be taking off those Fridays and looking after her and her cousin on those days. However I can see it being a problem.

Can anyone help? I don't know what to do for the best. I know some people would advise to take a back seat but then that would only be reinforcing what her mum has said...plus when we've tried hard to make sure she has a very 'normal' time when he's here then it would be a step backwards.

Has anyone got any practical advice? Or is this just how it's going to be for the next however-many years? I'm finding really upsetting and difficult to deal with - especially trying to separate a little girl who I'm very fond of from the vile behaviour I'm on the receiving end of.

Help!

gratefulforhelp_2

My practical advice is to try to step back from these murky issues that your OH has to deal with his ex over. Refrain from any involvement in matters of contact, or money. It will be to your advantage in the long run. Be kind and nice to the child, but let your OH do any giving of sanctions.

This may seem alien to you in the long run, but it will help your OH when he is in court, and it will help you keep your sanity.

maggied_2

Believe me I don't get involved in any of that! I never speak to X at all - the last time I did when when she was screaming at me through our gates and trying to barge through my front door! OH has very little contact now either but obviously he tells me when he has (usually for a rant!). I can't help but be annoyed for him and it does have an impact on me as it mucks up our plans when she messes around.

As I said I'm more concerned at the atmosphere in the house now.....OH and I had a chat about it last night as she's coming for a week starting Friday.

Here's a scenario - I get a mouthful of from DSD - she gets the "we don't talk to each other like that in this house" etc from me and it ends up her shouting at me. I'm then the bad guy which she then goes back and tells her mum - who has actually instructed her to tell her about any incident lilke that. Twice now I've found a note in her room along the lines of "Dear mum, maggied shouted at me".

It's self-fulfilling.

So - do I actually just completely ignore it when she starts? I think for now we need to have it where I'm not on my own with her - and then if the tantrums start I step back and allow OH to deal with it.

However we've had the set up for ages where if he's needed to nip out then I mind DSD - most of her school friends live very close to our house so she just plays out or a few of them play at our house - it's worked fairly well. I guess we'll have to go back on that one for a while - if OH does need to pop out then he'll have to take her with him.

I'm trying very hard to praise any hint of good behaviour but there honestly isn't much of it at the moment!

I know if I post this on the families board I'll get the "you're not important, back off b*tch" but it's not as clear cut as that - I've known DSD for more than half her life and am planning on sticking around for a lot more of it! I can't just play the 'disinterested dad's girlfriend' figure, especially when we all used to get along so well.

gratefulforhelp_2

I'm not saying you're not important, not at all. The "we don't talk to each other like that in this house" is a really good response, and if she gives you a mouthful, you are really not demeaning yourself if you choose to ignore it. If it makes you feel better, tell her you are tactically ignoring her until she can speak to you properly. I work with teenagers (I know she isn't yet, but she's behaving as one) and this does work.

Any attention you give to shouting or rudeness is asking for more shouting and rudeness.

You have to be incredibly saintly and patient, its really really hard for you, and maybe your idea to only have her around you when OH is there is a good one until he gets to court. Its also something he can talk about to his advantage I should have thought.

I understand that its soo frustrating for you when he's cross, but he is a grown up and he does have to sort this out himself, I think.

What do you think? I understand that your intentions are honourable.

maggied_2

OK - I'm going to use the "I'm ignoring you until you can speak properly" - that's a good one.

If I'm honest I have shouted at her - rarely but it has happened - I don't really want to be standing shouting for OH to come and tell her off when she does something wrong!

You're right about the behaviour being like a teenager's! She does veer between that and behaving like a two year old though - or is that normal for a 9yo? She gets very whiney (something that OH has never addressed tbh) and really does throw tantrums over the slightest thing - mainly when she is told no over something, or she has to do something (however small) that she has decided she doesn't want to do.

God that sounds like I'm just slating her....I'm really not. She's a lovely kid who's having a crappy childhood (imo).

Re OH - I wpouldn't expect him to tell me not to talk to him about my problems and it is him sorting out the court stuff etc - I don't mind him offloading that onto me.

Didismump

I agree with 'grateful'...
If she cannot speak to you with respect, then she needs to be explained to, that to earn respect you have to give it...:)
I had three (step-daughters) with my ex...and when they first started coming to stay over they were only 18months,3 and 4 1/2 years old...
Needless to say the oldest one soon learned that she could play me and her Mum off against each other ( kids learn these things SO young nowadays....Why??)...and she caused SO much trouble...just the same as you are explaining...
However my ex was also like your OH..and always made her see both sides of the coin...
Things CAN and do get better as they get older..you just have to make her realise that you are no threat to her relationship with her Mum & Dad..but that you CAN be good friends IF she will only allow it to happen.
If she screams at you..walk away...
Ignorance is bliss ( at times)..and she HAS to learn that you are not the enemy..
Let her Dad do any correcting that needs to be done until she can see to reason...
When she realises that you are not what her Mum is portraying you to be..she WILL come round...

I loved my exs girls like my own..and the hardest part was losing contact with them when their Dad left me..
But after a few months the middle daughter rang me and asked to come and see me... I made contact with their Mum..and she allowed me access, and eventually I saw them more than their Dad did..
Then they grew up and wanted to be with their friends..so I saw less and less of them
My ex's girls are now 25, 24 and 22...the middle one is married with a baby..and we kept in touch up until I lost her address..and she invited me and my (new) family to her Wedding and kept in touch until she moved away..

It can and WILL work out in your favour..just do NOT give up trying and don't let her grind you down:(
She has to learn who is boss, and whose home she is in..as it is not just her Dads..
Ground rules and understanding go a long,long way..and aid in what can be,a wonderful friendship...:)
Good Luck...:)

13Kent

I haven't really got much advice to offer despite having been in the same situation, but I wanted to wish you well.

We know it is hard for the children, especially as our PWC is similar to yours and undermines us, and uses all sorts of tactics to persuade the children that they would rather be with her than us (until she wants us to have them when she has something planned of course!!) Despite this we decided not to play her game and let them do as they pleased with us, spoiling them with presents etc.

But my OH's kids soon realised that rules at Mum's were different to rules at Dad's and adapted to that - e.g. bedtimes, what dvd's were allowed ( not ones that had a rating of older than their age) and also on what was acceptable behaviour in our house.

It is a double edged sword however -

We tried to be fair from the outset, laying down rules. In hindsight maybe it would have been better to have let them have their own way and not lay down our rules as now they are older they are not so keen to visit as they are not allowed the freedom that they get at their Mother's! (Also they are busier with their friends at weekends now they are older.) In one way makes my life a lot easier not having to make allowances and accommodate them so often - and it's cheaper!! But we miss them a lot as do our younger children, and would really like to see them more often, and sometimes we do think if we had spoilt them and let them do what they wanted a bit more maybe they would be more keen to come.....

However as we have our own children now too in another way I'm glad we did lay down ground rules, as now we need to consider the younger ones and don't want them to pick up on bad behaviour.

I always said that as they got older they would see though their mother's tactics, and realise that we had their best interests at heart, but sadly it has yet to happen!

Good luck - it's not easy hope it works out for you.

PlayingHardball

Hi Maggied,
I read your post a couple of days ago and wanted to respond when I had the time. I have re-read your OP and haven't read the others responses as I want to say what I would do, so apologies if I repeat the others suggestions.

When my dd was 8 I met my partner. There were no access issues between me and the ex, but the ex ALWAYS badmouthed me for various reasons. I was 'greedy' I was 'selfish' (for having a partner which obviously meant I didn't love my children as much as the ex did!), I was making dd's dad 'broke' and on and on. I dreaded when she came back to me after the weekend spent with her idiotic father (sorry, but any parent who poisons a child for their own gain is a true idiot)

My partner in the meantime, took the attitude of not rising to her (the worst behaviour came out when she was about 9 and lasted till 12) He did shout at her once, but it was deserved (she opened her back seat door while the car was moving at 50mph, because he told her off for something, can't remember what it was now, but she had a terrible attitude towards him). Her anger towards my partner was terrible, but it was all in defence of poor dad, we have no doubt. We would go on holiday, my partner, me and DD, and DD would be having a blast in the pool on minute, partner would go to take a pic of her, and she would turn all sour and pouty/angry to ruin the shot. How DARE HE take a picture of her! There was alot of anger, and I've no doubt it was all generated from her dad and his jealousy of us, me, who knows!

I think you need to use reverse psychology on the DD. I would think she'll be very protective of the mum, so say nothing bad about her, encourage your partner to do the same. I think thats absolutely VITAL.

Also, the issue of contact and the lie you are not allowed to be alone with her...I think her dad should sit her down and go through the court document to show her that it is all about arrangements of her time with both parents, and nothing to do with you. That would prove to his DD that everything mum says may NOT be true. If I were 9 I would certainly question my mum if i knew she had lied to me. (so he is saying something bad about mum, but not really, if you see)

The good thing is that you had a good relationship with her, so its obviously something recent that is causing the anger.

Your partner can't allow her to disrespect you and should make it clear to her that he won't tolerate that.

Everyone of us suffers differently in mixed families, but it is often caused by bitter ex's such as in both of our cases.

I'm no angel (trust me) but even though I hated what my ex was doing by poisoning my daughter against my partner, I turned the other cheek and always tried to say only positive things to my dd about dad (god, that was hard) like....he has an interesting job, or 'thats nice, you are goiing on a fun cruise with him, wow how exciting. I couldn't find MUCH to say that was nice, but I simply refrained from saying anything negative. Especially when she came back after weekends and told me things that he had said (never told me outright but in a round a bout way).

So, our situations are different in that you have had a good relationship with your partners DD, whereas my poor partner had to build a relationship which took until she was about 13 to properly move on from all her old pent up anger at him being around.

But I can feel for you and I have always thought that my partner was a saint because he was pretty tolerant throughout all the bad times with my dd. I've often wondered why he stuck around, and its nice to think that he loves me that much! lol - others would have been gone no doubt, she was a devil child towards him at times.

I don't think you need to tolerate bad behaviour at all, but I think you need to deal with it calmly and caring, try not to retaliate like she wants you to. Also, the mum will hope beyong hope that you can prove to DD that you are a witch - God I can't understand any partner like our partners ex's who would do this to their kid!

Hope that is of some help, feel like I've rambled a bit. Good luck, I'll be thinkikng of you and hoping that things will be sorted soon x

gratefulforhelp_2

maggied wrote: »

You're right about the behaviour being like a teenager's! She does veer between that and behaving like a two year old though - or is that normal for a 9yo? She gets very whiney (something that OH has never addressed tbh) and really does throw tantrums over the slightest thing - mainly when she is told no over something, or she has to do something (however small) that she has decided she doesn't want to do.

Its completely normal. Some children are still behaving in this way when they're 16 and older. Generally not, though, when they have been brought up in a thoughtful way. So what happens between now and when she is 16/18 is crucial.
When the tantrum comes, just say "you'll just have to have a tantrum then" let her go ahead and ignore it. Again, attention rewards it.
When she has had a day or an afternoon with no tantrum, say "Dad and I are very pleased that you have thrown no strops this afternoon, well done". This gives attention for the desired behaviour, and attention is what she's after.
This is over simplistic, but you get the gist?

PlayingHardball

Hi grateful - great advice. Can I add something tho? I personally wouldn't acknowledge directly to the child 'dad and I are very pleased that you have thrown no strops today'. I just feel by actually saying that, you may give a mixed message that actually strops get her attention on days she does them and days she doesn't. Does that make sense?

I'd rather just say to the daughter on a strop free day something like "do you know, you are a little darling (or whatever your family pet endearance is) and dad and I have had a lovely day with you".

gratefulforhelp_2

yes you're right. You've been really good and nice to everyone today, or something. Much better.