Is this legal? Expected to travel on Sunday for no pay?

SarahLou

I'm posting on behalf of my husband on this one and rapid replies would be most appreciated as he'll be having a word with his bosses tomorrow (Friday) so the more info he can arm himself with this evening before work tomorrow the better really.

Trouble is a-foot and this is why....

Firstly, I did post about the problems he was having a while back at his place of work which can be found on this thread:
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/1827645=

(the = won't hyperlink for some reason but if you copy and paste it all in, including the = sign, it seems to work)

Anyway. More away work has been on the agenda for this year and he only found out middle of last week that he was getting sent away again, this time it is some 280 miles away. Just for a week this time (thank god).

The problem is this - he, and his colleagues, work on a Monday to Friday basis. They/he doesn't do weekends aside from very occasional ones which are paid at time and a half/double time as they come around so infrequently and even then, they've always been optional and have never been compulsory. (His contract says "some weekend working may be required occasionally").

However. The boss who is organising this particular work away some 280 miles away has been making the others travel down on Sundays so as they can be starting work on site at 8:30am each Monday morning. They are all going down in a works vehicle and claim petrol for the vehicle. Stupidly, they've all been doing this for 5 weeks now and not kicked up a fuss (they've not been getting paid for the time on the Sunday to drive down). The "perk" is they get another night in a guesthouse with £10 subsistence for each evening they're there.

My hubby has told his bosses (last week when he first found out about this) that he was unable to travel Sunday as he'd be looking after our little one (as I sadly do work weekends routinely). So then he asked whether he could have an advance on the petrol money as he'd be taking his own car on the Monday morning. Since then, this particular boss has made himself rather uncontactable by being off on holiday, then just not in the office for some other reason, not answering his phone or emails. Then only as of today has he had a response from this boss to say that no petrol money will be paid for him to travel down on the Monday morning as they are providing a works vehicle to travel in (on the Sunday when the others are travelling down).

My point is though - surely if he's not getting paid to travel down on the Sunday (which none of them are getting a penny for it - just the "perk" of £10 for that nights subsistence in the guesthouse), is it legal for the company to ask him to travel in his own car and not pay him a penny towards the petrol?

(Please note: the company do have a petrol mileage claim scheme thing whereby they do frequently claim for petrol when using their own vehicles to get to/from places - near and far - so why should this job be the exception?)

Matt16v

If 'they' are travelling in the works car on the Sunday and your husband can't due to personal non work related circumstances, im sorry to say but i think thats his problem to rectify, not the companies and he'll have to drive and claim the money back as per usual practice. And i BELIEVE the company do have to pay him that back by law if its not part of his usual job (ie he doesnt travel regularly and/or get a car allowance and what not).

I travel occassionally for work too, and of course i dont get paid for the time spent travelling to wherever im going, unless its withing working hours or course, but do claim the mileage back afterwards, and i think thats a legal requirement.

Please dont take that as gospel though, thats just my opinion/own experience. Can he get the train? Probably a lot cheaper, and again can claim the money for the ticket back.

lucylucky

If they are not intending to pay him the time for travelling then they cannot expect him to travel for nothing.

Matt16v

Im sorry but i dont think thats right. If you're travelling outside your contracted hours i don't believe the company is obliged to pay you. Example, you have a meeting somewhere an hours drive away at 9am, are you going to get paid for that hours travel between 8am and 9am? No. If that was the case everyone would be getting paid to drive to work and back, and they're not!

lucylucky

Matt16v wrote: »

Im sorry but i dont think thats right. If you're travelling outside your contracted hours i don't believe the company is obliged to pay you. Example, you have a meeting somewhere an hours drive away at 9am, are you going to get paid for that hours travel between 8am and 9am? No. If that was the case everyone would be getting paid to drive to work and back, and they're not!

People get paid to travel to places outwith their normal place of work (in some instances)

Normal commuting does not get paid, this is above and beyond that.

Andy_L

Unfortunatly for him, unless a contract says otherwise, there is no legal requirement for an employer to pay mileage

Also, unless a contract says otherwise, or counting both unpaid & paid hours takes him below minimum wage, there is no legal requirement for an employer to pay for traveling time outside normal working hours

lucylucky

Andy_L wrote: »

Unfortunatly for him, unless a contract says otherwise, there is no legal requirement for an employer to pay mileage

Also, unless a contract says otherwise, or counting both unpaid & paid hours takes him below minimum wage, there is no legal requirement for an employer to pay for traveling time outside normal working hours

It does count towards his weekly hours with respect to the WTR.

SarEl

I'm afraid there's no law to cover this, so it's down to custom and practice, and employers policy. If he cannot or isn't willing to comply with the employers arrangements for travel then I'm afraid the employer is able to say that the matter is in his hands and his responsibility. He can make a claim for his mileage - but not against the employer, if they refuse to accept it as a valid mileage claim. It would have to be a claim on his tax, and that can't be done until the end of the tax year (I think - tax isn't my area, but that's what my accountant does for me - but maybe someone else will be better clued up on the rules). In terms of payment for travel time, again, this is custom and practice - and it appears from what you say that custom and practice dictates it is unpaid, although I may not have understood you correctly. Again, the law is silent on this. Most reasonable employers would either permit it as paid time, or make some compromise. The travel time (outside travel to and from your normal place of work) counts as working hours - but only for the purposes of the working time directive. Nothing in law dictates that it must be paid I am afraid.

Matt16v

Yes but you see my point thought, and they are not OBLIGED to pay you. If you're getting paid for travel time outside of your contracted hours as well as travel expenses (dont confuse the two) then good times, but not many people do i would say.

megababe18

I would try and talk to the boss and ask for time off in lieu. Even if it is a few hours, that will come in handy since he is going to have to make the trip anyway!

DVardysShadow

Matt16v wrote: »

If 'they' are travelling in the works car on the Sunday and your husband can't due to personal non work related circumstances, im sorry to say but i think thats his problem to rectify, not the companies and he'll have to drive and claim the money back as per usual practice. And i BELIEVE the company do have to pay him that back by law if its not part of his usual job (ie he doesnt travel regularly and/or get a car allowance and what not).

Having been told he will not be reimbursed, I don't think he has the least responsibility to get to site. The only thing I would do is - if the boss has not said this in email or writing - to get the bosses edict recorded in an email and request the boss to reconsider expenses, failing which OP's OH will report to the office on Monday morning. Keep copies.

This is squeezing the employees too far and it looks to me that the sooner a stand is taken the less grief there will be.