Building control or planning permission for removing load bearing wall?

cubso_2

Hi all,

I'm planning to hire a builder to make a 7ft high and 7ft wide hole in a load bearing wall between my living room and dining room. I've been given some conflicting information from various sources (including building control) about what is needed.

The most expensive option seems to be that I get a structural engineer to provide me with calculations to determine a concrete support for the opening in the wall. I've contacted an engineer and he's looking £400 off me for what seems to be a few calculations and I'm not overly keen to pay that if I can avoid it. So I'm thinking of proposing to building control that I'll use the strongest concrete support provided by the local builders yard for the work. Would this be enough for building control to approve the work or would they want to see the specific calculations?

Thanks!

macman

You need BC approval, not planning permission.
You will need an RSJ and that needs to be properly calculated to take the stresses-not just a large concrete lintel.

BeauBelle

We have had 2 load bearing walls removed in the last year and both times paid Building control their fees and employed a separate structural engineer to calculate the required beam. Our engineer cost £450 each time, but was well worth it for peace of mind. We have 2 massive RSJ's in place now which has made a world of difference to the house.

Building control insisted on having a copy of the load documents before they would issue a completion certificate.

If you are dealing with load bearing walls I would ensure that it is dealt with and carried out properly, you will have no end of problems when you come to sell if there is no completion certificate.

If you can't afford to do it properly then I wouldn't do it.

BB
xx

ormus

you are supposed to get BC approval, no PP is required.
and a structural engineer to do the calcs. another rip off for 400 quid.
that why i never bother telling anyone anything. just do it. and save a fortune. just make sure you follow "best practice" for the work.

as for selling the house in the future?
just tell em that the work was done when you bought the house. there are a million houses with extensions/RSJs etc and no paperwork.
do you really think they are all unsaleable?

Mojisola

cubso wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm planning to hire a builder to make a 7ft high and 7ft wide hole in a load bearing wall between my living room and dining room. I've been given some conflicting information from various sources (including building control) about what is needed.

The most expensive option seems to be that I get a structural engineer to provide me with calculations to determine a concrete support for the opening in the wall. I've contacted an engineer and he's looking £400 off me for what seems to be a few calculations and I'm not overly keen to pay that if I can avoid it. So I'm thinking of proposing to building control that I'll use the strongest concrete support provided by the local builders yard for the work. Would this be enough for building control to approve the work or would they want to see the specific calculations?

The most expensive option is to do a botch job and end up with a house that is, at best, unsaleable and, at worst, not safe to live in!

This is something that has to be done right.

cubso_2

Cheers everyone for your answers. I do want to do the job right and get the certificate from BC so looks like I'm going to have to delay a month or 2 until I can afford it with the proper calculations.

Tucker

Cubso

Have you shopped around for the price of the Structural Engineer?

You might get one for less than that. I paid £300 for a calculation which included a site visit and also included drawings and specification for my extension roof as well.

Part of the reason for the SE is that the price paid includes liability cover, should the calc be wrong and the correctly installed beam fails to be the right one for the job.

bosseyed

As others have said, its building control you need to sign off the works - planning permission is not needed.

We had a hole made in one of our load bearing walls to open up the kitchen - I would suggest an RSJ is the better option, certainly the approved building control inspector I used (doesn't have to be the local council) wanted an RSJ of a specific size rather than a concrete lintel so thats what we had. They'll also want to know details of the fire cladding around the beam (ie some plasterboard etc) and fixing details. At least one site visit will be mandatory, most will want to come out during works to confirm its all going as required, and then another after completion to check. Mine also wanted photos all the way through of various stages, which was fine.

Memory fails, but my approved inspector charged £180 I think.

I did all the plans for building control and my builder was more than happy for the approved inspector to site visit and chat to him about his work and what best to do.

As for structural calcs - I was lucky, I used a SE recommended by a friend and he did them for me for £90. Pretty damn cheap judging by this thread!

safe

You could do it yourself and add up the weight of all the walls and floors acting upon the new beam and buy an off the shelf lintel that is more than adequate to take the weight. Write to building control with what load is going on the beam and what beam you propose to put in and they should be happy.
I doubt you would have to pay an engineer more than £100 anyway, it’s likely to be a simple calc. I'd still do it myself though and not involve the Council incase they ask for anything stupid like wanting to check the foundations etc although you would be okay in a newish house.

System

safe wrote: »

You could do it yourself and add up the weight of all the walls and floors acting upon the new beam and buy an off the shelf lintel that is more than adequate to take the weight. Write to building control with what load is going on the beam and what beam you propose to put in and they should be happy.
I doubt you would have to pay an engineer more than £100 anyway, it’s likely to be a simple calc. I'd still do it myself though and not involve the Council incase they ask for anything stupid like wanting to check the foundations etc although you would be okay in a newish house.

i'm a bit shocked by some of the advice handed out on this forum, and this thread!
something "stupid like wanting to check foundations etc"?!?! this could be a serious problem!
Engineers calcs should be done properly for sizing lintols when they are being slapped into existing buildings, maybe if you are building from scratch the lintols can be specified from off the shelf products...

to the op, get proper calcs done by a qualified certifier of design - which will also have liability tied in -and get approval from building standards, then you are completely covered, an extra £400 quid is nothing if you just batter on and the house comes down with no insurance to cover it!

safe

the_r_sole wrote: »

i'm a bit shocked by some of the advice handed out on this forum, and this thread!
something "stupid like wanting to check foundations etc"?!?! this could be a serious problem!
Engineers calcs should be done properly for sizing lintols when they are being slapped into existing buildings, maybe if you are building from scratch the lintols can be specified from off the shelf products...

to the op, get proper calcs done by a qualified certifier of design - which will also have liability tied in -and get approval from building standards, then you are completely covered, an extra £400 quid is nothing if you just batter on and the house comes down with no insurance to cover it!

That's rubbish, I’d never advocate doing a job badly or dangerously and without seeing the place no advice can be given with any authority on what to do and I simply stated what I would be likely to do if it were my house. There could be many reasons why this isn’t the best option such as if the structural wall is acting as a buttress or the house has a history of subsidence. There is still no reason why the calcs can’t be provided by the op by working out what load is going onto the beam.

Also an engineer would not Taylor a specific beam out of a multitude of different options with each one needing time and consideration spending on it and thus enabling a fee of £400. The engineer will put the weights of the materials and live loads acting onto the beam into a spreadsheet and it will specify a 178 x 102 x 19kg UB with 2 small padstones (I assume the wall is only 4” thick) the opening is only 7’ wide. The house would not fall down if the appropriate sized beam was put in and an engineers liability certificate would not make the installed beam any stronger. As long as the job is done properly and the right lintel installed you wouldn’t need any insurance whatsoever.