Do we need an AST?

Paul_the_Painter

Situation is that a relative has an annexe to the main property, and is thinking of renting it out.

Gas - Electricity - Water are on the same meters as the main house.
Phone bill is in the owners name, and will remain so.

Council Tax is seperate, but will be paid by the owners.

Deal would essentially be tenant pays a fixed amount/month. to include all bills.

Due to layout the property, whilst a good size for a 1 bed flat, will only fit a large single bed in the bedroom, but can seat 4 comfortably around the kitchen table!

Now the building itself has it's own front door, and is connected to the main house, but does not have internal doors to the house. Own kitchen/bathroom/lounge/bedroom etc.

There is not a seperate set of deeds for the property, it is all included on the ones for the main house.

So the question is an AST needed, and deposit protection etc. or is it a case of treating the tenant as a lodger?

Second question: How much would you pay in north Bucks for a place like this? Bear in mind one bill only for all your expenses except for food and mobile phone!(probably through in broadband via the main house wireless BB)

clutton_2

""but does not have internal doors to the house." - this would indicate a separate entity and as the "tenant" will not be living with the LL i would not classify this as a lodger.....

you arent trying to weasel out of GASSAFE certs and legal responsibilities are you ? (even tho boiler may not be in flat - GASSAFE cert is still required for a tenant)

AST needed - i would set a rent figure then add on another figure for bills.... so that you may be able to increase bills figure if the house bills are huge.....

Yorkie1

Slightly worried by the shared BB question - what will your relative do if the tenant starts downloading dodgy stuff? Will they be the ones investigated? I'd lock the BB down and make them get a dongle.

G_M

Your question should not be 'do we need an aST' because it is not the paperwork that creates an AST, it is the set-up.

Your question should be 'Is an AST being created?'

You can get your 'paying visitor' to sign a 'lodger agreement', but as clutton says, an AST may be created giving him a tenant's rights.

The set-up you describe is ambiguous. In the end, only a court case could determine whether an AST exists. Relevant factors however are:

shared utilities (gas, heating, electricity etc) indicate lodger in your home;
Seperate front door indicates tenant (AST);
Shared areas (hallway? living area? garden?) indicate lodger;
Exclusive occupation (ie you have no access/use of his kitchen etc) indicates tenant;
Services provided (eg you provide/change bed linen or clean his area regularly as part of the rent) indicates lodger;
Separate council tax strongly indicates tenant;

So - you could provide a lodger agreement, with whatever notice period you want (eg 1 week whatever) and whatever terms you want (ie resticting guests etc) and your 'lodger' might be happy with that and agree.

However down the line he might claim tenants rights (ie if you try to evict with the 1 week notice). You might end up in court and a judge might well define it as an AST in spite of your signed lodger agreement. Your 'lodger' would then be a 'tenant' entitled to AST notice period and process.

Up to you how to play it. (but as clutton also says, whatever you do get a gas safety cert if you have gas as that's a potential criminal offence!

Shared phone/broadband? Nightmare. Cut off the line to the annexe and make the ... err... tenant? get a 2nd line installed.

My annexe (8 mile Milton Keynes) - a good sized bed-sit, + decent bathroom + functional kitchen (love that estate agent speak!) was £100 per week including bills (not phone!) 3 years ago.

Paul_the_Painter

Not trying to weasel out of anything! Owners were confused as to what applied. Incidentally gas boiler is not within the potential rental property, and no other gas inside the property, serviced annually. Probably ditch the BB idea, or they could sign up for BB on the line into the annexe (and pay the bill)

already serperate phone line in - in fact the the main house has 2, and the annexe 1 - long story

p.s. also got sky

think I might move in myself......

adg1

Get a contract done, even if its a simple on you can buy from WHSmiths. It will stop all arguements if there are issues during the tenancy.

They will not be sharing facilities so I would not class that as a lodger.

Get a lock down on the house broadband - what if there are download limits and the lodger uses it all up watching movies and you (as the holder of the broadband) get charged per megabyte?

Make sure you get the relative safety certificates done (Gas) yearly as the boiler is running both systems.

clutton_2

""gas boiler is not within the potential rental property, and no other gas inside the property, serviced annually.""

we had a long discussion a couple of months back about this very situation and a GSSAFE engineer convinced us all that you do need a GASSAFE cert even if the boiler is not in the premises..... as there are regs re distance of the boiler from tenants' windows, angle of the flue etc etc

Paul_the_Painter

Thanks for the input, I shall forward it on. On a slightly seperate note, 2 boilers, 2 lots of council tax - an annexe seems like a great idea, right up until the bills start rolling in.

They did ask the council about knocking through a door from the annexe to the main house, and getting rid of one bill that way. They said "sure, no problem, do that and we'll cancel the Council Tax on the annexe - we will however re-band the main house up at least one band"

Rock - them - Hard Place

CIS

If the annexe is banded as a seperate property by the Valuation Office Agency (voa.gov.uk) then the council tax is legally the occupiers responsibility, not the owners (unless they were resident in the annexe).

PasturesNew

As it's self-contained, it's definitely an annexe... even if the two were to share some common entrance, if it has a lock on the door and beyond the door is self-contained (kitchenette/shower) then it is an annexe - and separate council tax should have been paid on it really, which the OP says it has been.

It is a separate property - and therefore needs an AST and all the legal fripperies that come with an AST... deposit scheme, gas checks, safe electricity, etc.

As the meters are in the main house, there's nothing to stop the annexe being rented out on a "bills inclusive" basis - just include only the ones that can't be separated - and make the tenant responsible for the ones that are separate (e.g. council tax).

Debt_Free_Chick

Annexes often have a planning condition that prevents it being used as a separate dwelling. Often an annexe is simply add-on accommodation for family and - if so - certainly not available to let-out for payment, on AST-like terms.

Do you have a planning restriction on the annexe?