Dodgy seller.

patman99

I bought a joblot of PC World returns from ebayer 'electronictraders001'. The box arrived today.

90% of the inkjet carts had fault report labels on, and 60% of the other items did as well. Most of the ink had leaked from the carts as well.

Their listing states 'No Returns' but nowhere does it state 'you will receive a box containing mainly bin-fodder as it saves us having to pay to dispose of it ourselves'. It won't stop me doing an SNAD through Paypal though.

Now, when I buy joblots to split and sell-on, I expect the odd item or two to be faulty or to have parts missing, but for over 60% of the consignment to be like that is totally unacceptable.

Mrs_justjohn

Right to tackle the legal issue before the moral one......

He is registered as a business and as you have stated you bought them to split and sell on then you too are classed as a business (whether you are registered as one or not). Therfore Distance Sales REgs do not count and you have no automatic right to change your mind and request a return.

Yes you can start a paypal dispute but are the items actually 'significanty not as described'? You may not be happy with them but that does not necessarily make them SNAD. He didn't state they were working items he stated they were sold 'as seen' which would imply to me that he either knew they were not working, guessed they were not or he genuinely did not know and was hedging his bets. Howver they were described as 'customer returns' and the sort of items he is selling are generally only returned if they have problems. My guess is you would win a SNAD as paypal tend to come down on the side of the buyer.

His feedback looks ok and you did get what was actually advertised (although I personally would have made sure that the leaking ink cartridges were contained in someway). I don't think he is a conman just someone selling on customer returned items and on this occasion you got a duff batch. If you can not risk getting a 'duff batch' from time to time then maybe buying untested/cust returns/sold as seen items/ is not for you and you should be looking more for box damaged or tested items - although they obviously come at a much higher price and there is a reason for that!

Crowqueen

Sold as seen means nothing on a site where items are sold on description. Unless the buyer had been able to inspect them before they bid/bought, they would not have been seen, so buyer was reliant on the original description rather than "as seen".

I'm better on consumer sales so I will leave it to others to comment, but in general the Sale of Goods Act requires items to be as described, so while I agree it is a risk people take with sales by description, if they are not as described they should really be able to return them as faulty.

Distance Selling Regulations cover change-of-mind returns, not any return as not-as-described.

Mrs_justjohn

Crowqueen wrote: »

Sold as seen means nothing on a site where items are sold on description. Unless the buyer had been able to inspect them before they bid/bought, they would not have been seen, so buyer was reliant on the original description rather than "as seen".

I'm better on consumer sales so I will leave it to others to comment, but in general the Sale of Goods Act requires items to be as described, so while I agree it is a risk people take with sales by description, if they are not as described they should really be able to return them as faulty.

Distance Selling Regulations cover change-of-mind returns, not any return as not-as-described.

Yes I agree that sold as seen is worthless if the goods are not seen...so the description needs to be good. It didn't state the goods were faulty or untested but neither did it state they were working. The only real info that the buyer has to go on is the phrase 'Customer returned' and the fact they are sold 'as seen' which whilst I agree means nothing in legal terms in this case, does give you the impression that they were not guaranteed to be working.

I do believe he would win a paypal dispute (rightly or wrongly). My point was that just because they buyer is unhappy with the purchase or he did not get a good a deal as he expected does not necessarily mean they are 'significantly not as described'.

Mrs_justjohn

Crowqueen wrote: »

I'm better on consumer sales so I will leave it to others to comment, but in general the Sale of Goods Act requires items to be as described, so while I agree it is a risk people take with sales by description, if they are not as described they should really be able to return them as faulty.

QUOTE]

Playing devils advocate here but.....

Yes the sale of goods act requires items to be as described. The description gave a list of the items the buyer would get and stated they were 'customer returns' and this is EXACTLY what he got. No where did it state that the items worked or that a minimum percentages of the items would work. I can understand why the OP feels disappointed but I do not believe the seller set out to rip him off!

The sale of goods act does not cover faults if the faults 'or potential faults' were pointed out prior to sale, so you could argue that by describing them as 'customer returned' you were stating that they were potentially faulty. Thus pointing this out prior to sale.

patman99

I don't mind say, 50% of items being faulty if the lot is high-value stuff, but when there is such a high proportion of low value items, and anny high value ones are faulty, then I think I have a rite to complain.

And yes, I'm hoppinig to become a profitable business, selling both online & at car boot sales. If all works out, then I can sign-of the dole and become a saelf-supporting trader.

Mrs_justjohn

patman99 wrote: »

I don't mind say, 50% of items being faulty if the lot is high-value stuff, but when there is such a high proportion of low value items, and anny high value ones are faulty, then I think I have a rite to complain.

And yes, I'm hoppinig to become a profitable business, selling both online & at car boot sales. If all works out, then I can sign-of the dole and become a saelf-supporting trader.

Hi OP

I can understand that you are disappointed and I am not arguing with you or your opinions.....I think however when you buy in this manner you will get 'duff lots'. I think buying a bulk lot of 'high value' items and expecting 50% to work is unrealistic.

Lets say for arguements sake I sell 100 untested items for £100 and only 20 work you would be disappointed that you only got a 20% success rate....but if you sold each of those 20 working items for £25 each then that is a 400% return. You may wish to rethink your buying strategy/expectations if you are serious about making a go of it.

Good luck to you for making an effort to get off benefits...but make sure you are squeaky clean as signing on whilst 'ebaying for profit' will still get you in trouble with the tax man.

Crowqueen

If the seller omitted to mention the quality of the goods, that's almost as bad as saying they were in perfect condition. They can't get away with saying "haha, no returns, I didn't say they were perfect, in fact I said nothing at all about the quality". That's hardly as-described OR indeed sold as seen.

AFAI recall, traders have a three month grace period with the taxman before they have to register as traders. eBay require you to have a business account from the word go, however.

Mrs_justjohn

Crowqueen wrote: »

If the seller omitted to mention the quality of the goods, that's almost as bad as saying they were in perfect condition. They can't get away with saying "haha, no returns, I didn't say they were perfect, in fact I said nothing at all about the quality". That's hardly as-described OR indeed sold as seen .

LOL - MY point is the seller stated they were customer returns. I think it is generally considered that items that have already been sold and then returned to shop by the buyer and then resold to a third party who shifts them in 'bulk lots' are unlikely to be in prerfect condition. It is clear from the OP's previous posts he was not expecting perfect goods.

Mrs_justjohn

OP Believe it or not I am not here to atagonise posters on this thread - I am trying to help....

Just a bit of background on 'me'. I have been trading on Ebay for 10 years and make a good living on it. We buy untested/spares/repairs/cust returned goods. It is a minefield and it will take some time to find a good supplier - when you do hang onto them!

We are lucky if we get a 15-20% success rate with the items we buy. This would more likely be 10% if we were not able to repair some of the items ourselves. However the profit we make on the working items more than makes it worth our while. The problem is getting rid of the cr*p. Try and go for things that will still have a value even if not working properly...eg If you buy a mirror and it is broken it has no resale value. If however you buy a mobile phone and it is broken it has a value in spare parts.

We know that our supplier is genuine but it still is the luck of the draw what success rate / profit you make on each batch. We have on occasion received goods that we struggled to break even on but even then we did not go back and moan at the seller....and we are spending £2K - £5K a time.

Like I said Good luck getting off the benefits bit please don't ask for the name of our supplier!!

George666

Mrs_justjohn wrote: »

Hi OP

Good luck to you for making an effort to get off benefits...but make sure you are squeaky clean as signing on whilst 'ebaying for profit' will still get you in trouble with the tax man.

You will be in trouble not just with the taxman but with the benifits agency if you are not declaring what you earn while claiming to the benifits agency.
On that point I must point out there are some vindictive people in this world and if this seller you have been doing business with is vindictive and you cause the seller trouble on ebay then all they have to do is report you to the taxman and if you are not squeaky clean you will be in a lot of trouble if you have bought and then sold anything and not declared your profit as earnings.
Also remember OP this is an open forum and your seller could be reading all of this right now.