written terms and conditions of employment

T800

This is a small update to an ongoing problem. Since I commenced work I was never given a written contract. More so, I never received my written terms and conditions within the 2 month period as required by law. As a result I requested my terms and conditions and have now received a written contract which includes the terms and conditions. The problem I now face is that I disagree with parts of the new written contract which are fundamentally different from the verbal contract (based on my working customs and practices).

Id like to know what options I have at this stage and because Im unhappy with this new contract, what rights I have to possibly avoid accepting it/ignore it/dont sign it and continue to work as I always have done under the original verbal contract?

Thanks

Si.

Googlewhacker

First thing is an informal chat with who issued the contract, if this doesn't work and you really want to push it further then raise a formal grievance (as soon as you do this though I would expect your contract not to be extended...If I remember you were on a 9 month contract?)

Googlewhacker

care to provide an example of what you disagree on?

T800

Thanks Googlewhacker. My employment is due to end in 2 months time. The main issue is to do with my working hours, I am used to having a 1hr45min lunch break as do other members of staff. This has been unchallenged since I started work, yet the written contract stipulates 1hr lunch break. Naturally this is less generous contract than the verbal one. In addition im unhappy with a clause that says that they can require me to perform any duties skilled or unskilled not within the scope of my normal duties at their discretion, and amend my job description at any time. As it stands I have a set job and would not like them to have the right to interfere and make me do different tasks/whatever they please. Otherwise, the rest of the contract is pretty generic in nature and acceptable. I realise that I dont have to accept the contract but just wondering how to do this formally, Im concerned that even if I resume work it might be inferred that I have unwittingly agreed to the new contract even without signing it.

Googlewhacker

T800 wrote: »

Thanks Googlewhacker. My employment is due to end in 2 months time. The main issue is to do with my working hours, I am used to having a 1hr45min lunch break as do other members of staff. This has been unchallenged since I started work, yet the written contract stipulates 1hr lunch break. Naturally this is less generous contract than the verbal one. In addition im unhappy with a clause that says that they can require me to perform any duties skilled or unskilled not within the scope of my normal duties at their discretion, and amend my job description at any time. As it stands I have a set job and would not like them to have the right to interfere and make me do different tasks/whatever they please. Otherwise, the rest of the contract is pretty generic in nature and acceptable. I realise that I dont have to accept the contract but just wondering how to do this formally, Im concerned that even if I resume work it might be inferred that I have unwittingly agreed to the new contract even without signing it.

1 hour 45 minute lunch....bloody hell lol! If you have always been having this then I can't see the company objecting to you getting that amended.

As for the other clause as far as I am aware that is a generic condition in most peoples contracts and as you only have 2 months guaranteed work it is not one I would personally kick a fuss up over.

T800

Googlewhacker wrote: »

1 hour 45 minute lunch....bloody hell lol! If you have always been having this then I can't see the company objecting to you getting that amended.

As for the other clause as far as I am aware that is a generic condition in most peoples contracts and as you only have 2 months guaranteed work it is not one I would personally kick a fuss up over.

If they have allowed me to go for 1hr 45 (sometimes 2hrs) aswell as other colleagues, then it is something that is part of the culture of the organisation, I have been accustomed to doing this for 5 months now and see it as part of my contract. I understand they want it amended, but naturally im not happy for this to happen. I also feel victimised for asserting a statutory right (I asked to receive the terms and conditions and now my contract has been substantially altered to my detriment). Do you think this would be strong enough grounds to claim constructive dismissal?

Googlewhacker

T800 wrote: »

If they have allowed me to go for 1hr 45 (sometimes 2hrs) aswell as other colleagues, then it is something that is part of the culture of the organisation, I have been accustomed to doing this for 5 months now and see it as part of my contract. I understand they want it amended, but naturally im not happy for this to happen. I also feel victimised for asserting a statutory right (I asked to receive the terms and conditions and now my contract has been substantially altered to my detriment). Do you think this would be strong enough grounds to claim constructive dismissal?

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You really need to get out of your head taking every company to a tribunal for the slightest error or mistake. I remember you moaning on another thread about the job you were in and my initial thought was 'stop taking companies to an ET then and then you will progress!'

You need to look at the long term in your life, the referance etc for progressing your career along. If a future employer saw that you had taken multiple companies to a tribunal then regardless of the result you will be seen as a trouble maker.

You need to pick your battles!

T800

Googlewhacker wrote: »

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You really need to get out of your head taking every company to a tribunal for the slightest error or mistake. I remember you moaning on another thread about the job you were in and my initial thought was 'stop taking companies to an ET then and then you will progress!'

You need to look at the long term in your life, the referance etc for progressing your career along. If a future employer saw that you had taken multiple companies to a tribunal then regardless of the result you will be seen as a trouble maker.

You need to pick your battles!

At first I thought you were being helpful.

Im only interested in the law here, I think reducing a lunch break by 45minutes is a fundamental change to a contract. It equates to many days over the year.

Perhaps petty to you, but I havent really asked for your career building advice, I dont care a jolt about any reference simply as whenever I wanted a job I have managed to secure one and have the confidence to continue doing so.

For your information im going to university in September and couldnt care a jolt about any reference. Im interested only in my rights as an employee in the UK not any morality lesson.

Googlewhacker

T800 wrote: »

At first I thought you were being helpful.

Im only interested in the law here, I think reducing a lunch break by 45minutes is a fundamental change to a contract. It equates to many days over the year.

Perhaps petty to you, but I havent really asked for your career building advice, I dont care a jolt about any reference simply as whenever I wanted a job I have managed to secure one and have the confidence to continue doing so.

For your information im going to university in September and couldnt care a jolt about any reference. Im interested only in my rights as an employee in the UK not any morality lesson.

For what it is worth I agreed with you on the lunch thing if you actually looked and said that if for 5 months you had been having this with their knowledge I doubt they would object to you taking this.

If however they do object they can force the change through, either that or let you have it and be glad they get rid of you in two months.

As for going to uni, you will have time from before uni where you worked so you will have to be able to answer questions about this and it would look suspicious with no referance from any work place even if it was over 3 years since you left.

And for what it is worth I still don't think you could take them for constructive dismissal.

And for morals, at the end of the day they will get you further having them than not having them

LittleVoice

T800 wrote: »

At first I thought you were being helpful.

Im only interested in the law here, I think reducing a lunch break by 45minutes is a fundamental change to a contract. It equates to many days over the year.

Perhaps petty to you, but I havent really asked for your career building advice, I dont care a jolt about any reference simply as whenever I wanted a job I have managed to secure one and have the confidence to continue doing so.

For your information im going to university in September and couldnt care a jolt about any reference. Im interested only in my rights as an employee in the UK not any morality lesson.

The advice would have been helpful to someone with the sense to consider it.

You may find that it isn't always as easy to get a job as you have found it so far but I shouldn't include that in a response to you as it would be interpreted as a "morality lesson" I suppose.

So you don't care a jolt (or jot) about a reference. You may get a jolt into reality when you need one.

And no, you don't have a case to claim constructive dismissal. But why don't you try it? Spend a bit of time (during your 1 hr 45 minute lunch breaks) to find a solicitor to take it on (not on a no win, no fee basis of course).

T800

Googlewhacker wrote: »

For what it is worth I agreed with you on the lunch thing if you actually looked and said that if for 5 months you had been having this with their knowledge I doubt they would object to you taking this.

If however they do object they can force the change through, either that or let you have it and be glad they get rid of you in two months.

how exactly can they force it though? because from what ive read a contract is an agreement, and requires my agreement to be changed. If I disagree with the new contract, then it isnt a contract at all.