I am so angry@ penalty fare

Livingthedream

FARE-COP wrote: »

i) the strict liability offence of 'Fail to show a valid ticket' contrary to National Railway Byelaw 18.1 (2005)

newfoundglory wrote: »

Assuming it goes to magistrates court, it would have to be the strict liability 'failing to show a valid ticket'. This is unfair, but is unfortunately the way it is. However, remember you will almost definitely get a CRIMINAL CONVICTION for this, even if you don't end up paying any costs

So lets see if I can understand this right, the OP who bought a ticket in advance to pick up before he travelled, but due to no fault of his own, can get prosecuted under a railway byelaw?

Surely the evidence of a letter from a train company saying they were "short of resources" for that day would be mitigating circumstances, in fact would prove that the train company was at fault.

newfoundglory & farecop both your posts I totally agree with what you saying, but feel that the OP is been treated unfairly by the train compaines.

somersertboy

Thanks everyone-I feel Ive been treated unfairly too livingthedream.

Just to go over a few points again,

Yes I do have a print out and e.mail confirming my 'purchase' of the journey and it states Exact wording in quotes- "you have chosen to collect tickets from Yeovil Pen Mill station ticket office"

I also have a letter from FGW (first great western-station operator)stating "I am sorry that our ticket office at Pen Mill was closed on 7th June" due to being "short on resources"

There is no other means of buying a ticket at this station other than pre-purchase or ticket office.


I also have a letter from cross country who state that they "having checked their systems,it shows that the station ticket office should have been open at the time you got there"

I did have the reference booking code which the inspector could do "nothing with".I had my debit card on me when I was issued the unpaid fare notice.

I do have a good solicitor if need be-but am worried about what newfoundglory has said in his post,I do not want a criminal conviction for this! and do not have £500.
The date to pay the unpaid fare IPRCAS has now passed.As others have re-iterated I had already paid for my journey in it's entirety-It is on my bank statement.

I cant see how I can be prosecuted for failing to have a valid ticket on me when the train company's couldn't issue it to me!?

I refuse to pay twice for something I had already paid for-or pay a fine for refusing to pay twice.

The car I went to get is fabulous by the way.I had not travelled by train for some years-I will be using the car in future to travel and not the scummy-asset stripped, moneygrabbing rip off merchant scum that are calling themselves a 'service' it's disgusting, they should be ashamed.And you know what?-I feel like a good fight, bring it on FGW!

newfoundglory

somersertboy wrote: »

There is no other means of buying a ticket at this station other than pre-purchase or ticket office.

This would get you off the hook.... definitely.... but you should have purchased a ticket at the first available opportunity. From reading, you didn't.

I think if you pay a penalty fare, you cant then be prosecuted without your penalty fare being refunded.

Basically, if you pay the penalty you are unlikely to be prosecuted.

If you dont pay and you are, you should consult a good solicitor to see what action and steps you should take. I'm not even sure how you go about defending a strict liability offense.

robt_2

There is no penalty fare involved.

newfoundglory

Ah, okay, yes an unpaid fare notice. To be honest i have never heard of it so I went to look it up.

"An Unpaid Fare Notice is not the same as a Penalty Fare Notice. Where the incident is considered to fall outside of the scope of the Railways (Penalty Fare) Regulations 1994, Unpaid Fare Notices are issued in accordance with the Transport Provider's Policy & Procedures and/or the National Rail Conditions of Carriage."

So basically a civil debt by the sounds of it.

Seems like there are two options. Pay what is being asked, and then go to small claims to reclaim the money you had already paid.

Or write back declining to pay any more than you have already.

anewman

Scary to think I was very nearly in this situation. Went to the station well in advance, and tried to collect my tickets from the ticket collections machine - unfortunately the machine kept giving some sort of error and returning my card. I only just made it to the ticket office as they were locking up and they luckily gave me my ticket. Any later and I'd have probably done the same as the OP, i.e. gone on the train without a valid ticket thinking I had already paid for the service. i had booked the tickets well in advance for the cheapest possible price and there'd have been no way I could afford the full fare at the time.

somersertboy

I thought they would issue my tickets on the Yeovil to Bristol leg of the journey,however,no inspector checking tickets on that leg of the journey,I thought ok I will do it at Bristol ticket office-train got in nearly 15 mins late -I ran to my next train and it departed within a minute of boarding-it was on this leg of the journey I was issued the unpaid fare notice.Didn't leave much time to sort out the issue!-I sent a 'signed for' letter last week to the IRCAS stating I was now involved in a legal dispute with the ticket seller and to stop any payment requests or further action until an outcome has been reached.I also sent a letter to FGW asking for my money back within 7 days of the date on my letter.No reply.Prob. binned it as It wasn't signed for.May do another mon.and send it signed for.Battle shall commence next week.

somersertboy

Still no word as yet from IRCAS-the lull before the storm?

Livingthedream

Thanx for the update :T

But they will wait for a certain amount of days, due to perhaps delay in the postal system before they realise that your not going to pay, then they'll take it to the next level.

Which will be a solicitors letter or a threatening letter from IRCAS legal dept, both will be wrote in the same way to bully you into paying by quoting; railway byelaws and Regulation of Railways Act to look intimidating.

Or you could be lucky and the IRCAS feel's that they would have a hard time securing a conviction in a court of law that you never hear from them again?

somersertboy

Thanks livingthedream,Yeah, be interesting to see what happens next.There is the possibility they will throw it out.Will update as to any developments.