I am so angry@ penalty fare

somersertboy

Altarf , you have got it-that's exactly how the situation is right now,except-

Altarf wrote: »

7 - Cross Country Trains, on the leg from Bristol to Stafford, were not interested in the OP's problems, made no effort to check whether they were telling the truth, and merely penalty fared them.

Isn't quite correct as they have 'unpaid fare' noticed me not penalty fared me.

but thanks for your informative & supportive post.I am due to pay the penalty fare by tomorrow-and was going to pay it-but what the heck! I think I will take your advice.This is mis-treatment on many levels of the fare paying general public and needs to be treated as such.I think the two companies will say it's nothing to do with them-and now I will have 'defaulted' with the IRCAS but if they do that it will come out in court anyway I guess.
Thanks also Moonrakerz-it will be something else to try in court if a guy does turn up that is but yes Rob is correct in pointing out I have an unpaid fare notice (and refused to pay,twice!) and not a penalty fare notice.PS your avatar is typical of the nonsense society we are subjected to daily-makes me laugh and just shake my head in disbelief.

Livingthedream

Best of Luck somersertboy,

It will be interesting to see what the IPFAS and revenue protection people do next, whether they take you to court or not, think you will get a threatening letter from one of their solicitors 'about how much extra in costs, its going to cost you if you go to court' trying to scare/bully you into paying.

Then it will be decision time, remember if they do take you to court you can pay anytime up to the day of the hearing by post and you wont get a CCJ unless u don't pay the court fine, if you lose the case.

Quentin

Even if you lose in court, you don't get a CCJ registered against you as long as you pay up within a month.

somersertboy

hmm, I do have a good solicitor and may run this by him-As currently unemployed should get legal aid to cover it also.Worth a call to him anyway i think.

olly300

OP contact passenger focus - http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/ telephone number - 0300 123 2350 instead of running to the courts.

somersertboy

thanks guys-I am going for them! I think Ive got a strong enough case.I really don't want a ccj though-thanks for your posts with advice on that.Will update when I hear back but gave FGW 7 days (tomorrow)to reply with regards refunding my original fare.Nothing yet from them! Not paying the IRCAS a penny.:D

FARE-COP

somersertboy wrote: »

thanks guys-I am going for them! I think Ive got a strong enough case.I really don't want a ccj though-thanks for your posts with advice on that.Will update when I hear back but gave FGW 7 days (tomorrow)to reply with regards refunding my original fare.Nothing yet from them! Not paying the IRCAS a penny.:D

I think you appear to have a good case for appeal, and maybe you consider it worth risking Court action, BUT there is one important consideration and a small error in your assumptions than needs to be corrected

IF, in the unlikely event this did result in Court action, this will NOT be a County Court matter. It would not be a CCJ as you seem to think.

The process is that, if a Penalty Fare Notice or an Unpaid Fare Notice remains unpaid and you don't successfully appeal it, the TOC will normally cancel it (as allowed by the rules) and proceed to issue a Magistrates Court Summons for an allegation of either

i) the strict liability offence of 'Fail to show a valid ticket' contrary to National Railway Byelaw 18.1 (2005)

or

ii) 'intent to avoid a rail fare' contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)

You will not get legal aid to fight either of these charges

I have to say that from your posts, it seems unlikely that any such action would succeed, although a lot depends on what actually was available at Yeovil station at the time.

For instance, if the ticket was booked online and the booking office was closed,

a) did you have the credit/debit card used to make the booking and any booking reference with you?

and

b) was there a self-service machine from which the tickets could have been collected using the card?

If the answer to a) is 'Yes' and the answer to b) is 'No', then they have no chance of proving a case in my view

GEEGEE8

I can't believe how badly you have come out of this! Shocking!

I hope you win!

newfoundglory

This is more complicated than it seems. Consider that the OP did actually make a PAYMENT.

Assuming it goes to magistrates court, it would have to be the strict liability 'failing to show a valid ticket'. This is unfair, but is unfortunately the way it is. However, remember you will almost definitely get a CRIMINAL CONVICTION for this, even if you don't end up paying any costs.

Trying to get a conviction for intent to avoid payment if the OP produced a bank statement in court showing a payment/charge made would completely squash any prosecutor trying to prove 'intent to avoid' something. How can you avoid paying for something you have already paid for?

The problem with IPFAS is that its funded by the training operating companies... so is questionable as to exactly how independent they are. From reading online you would probably be correct in assuming that not many appeals are upheld.

In reality... to avoid ANY chance or risk of failing to show a valid ticket I would have paid for another ticket (if possible)... and then gone to small claims for breach of contract and sale of goods/distance selling (you could then have also claimed for any difference in the price of ticket too).

In your case, if you take a chance and don't pay the penalty fare - I suspect they would be unable to recover this in the County Court. You paid, and the evidence is overwhelming in your favour. However, you could still be convicted of failing to show a valid ticket in the Magistrates Court. This is bad, as it could effect your ability to get certain jobs in future. Often what happens is people buy themselves out of this situation. Slip the TOC £500 and they might not prosecute sort of thing if they are not offered penalty fare.

To summarise, if its the county court then take them on... but if its magistrates for prosecution consider very carefully what you are going to do. If its magistrates court you should probably find a good solicitor to explore the options with on this.

Train operating companies are unfortunately scum on the bottom of your boot. Thats what happens with privatisation and no leglisation to back it up.

isplumm

somersertboy wrote: »

thanks guys-I am going for them! I think Ive got a strong enough case.I really don't want a ccj though-thanks for your posts with advice on that.Will update when I hear back but gave FGW 7 days (tomorrow)to reply with regards refunding my original fare.Nothing yet from them! Not paying the IRCAS a penny.:D

Hi.

How about contacting Barry Doe - [EMAIL="faredealer@barrydoe.co.uk"]faredealer@barrydoe.co.uk[/EMAIL] - he is a contributor for Rail & might be able to help in this case.

Mark