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How do we get rid of my parents carer?
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rose28454
Posts: 4,963 Forumite



To cut a long story short my brothers and sisters and I are all in our 40's and 50's and Mum is 84 and Dad 90. My oldest brother always has been a big bully and I am the only one who does not speak to him as basically he persuaded Dad to invest in 3 failed business and has left them with a large never ending mortgage. I look after them on a day to day basis as I live near and they had a cleaner who came twice a week. She was not great with timekeeping but cleaned well and they got to be quite fond of her. However 3 months ago my brother decided they needed a carer/cleaner so he advertised and got someone then sacked the other lady and told her not to phone or visit them again. My Mum was really upset but they are also frightened so gave in. I was really incensed by his attitude of " I wont be overruled on this " and after some discussion with my sister' I agreed to give it time.
3 months has passed and things are not going well. They wont let her do any actual caring ( which I understand ) and my daughter and I go daily to put my Dad's cream on as he has a bad rash. I have been talking to my eldest sister about this but as she lives abroad she has not seen what has been going on. However she came home last week and was shocked at the fact my parents are paying this woman £100.00 per week for 12.5 hours of cleaning and caring and she had to spend all week cleaning. ( this woman insisted she needed this many hours when he interviewed her). She also told my brother she could shop and do the garden. Mum wont let her shop as she likes me to take her or do it for her and I had to re-plant all the pots she did at the weekend as she made such a mess of it. She was put out that my sister did the cleaning but as my sis said she had too as the house was so dirty. To top it all she told my Mum today to ask my sister not to do her work. My parents are so frightened of upsetting my brother that they did not say anything. However I am livid and want to tell her to leave. My brother even took my Dad's cashcard and he draws the money fortnightly to pay her. Dad has Alzheimers so gets very upset and really want his card back and my parents are paying her so can be trusted to make sure she gets her money.
Because of my issues with him I have to be careful that my anger is not misread as a vendetta so I have e-mailed my sis and asked her to intervene.
Now to the financial question. She is being paid cash and does not pay any tax or NI ( which I know is wrong as I am a bookkeeper by trade) which is a shame as the Adult Care offered them some money to be spent for care but it had to be spent with receipts being shown. So my sister is hoping to take them to Switzerland when she comes home in a fortnight so they can spend a fortnight with her. I spoke to them tonight and they have agreed that if my brother does not get rid of her then I will . So the question is will she be due any notice period as basically she is paid cash?
3 months has passed and things are not going well. They wont let her do any actual caring ( which I understand ) and my daughter and I go daily to put my Dad's cream on as he has a bad rash. I have been talking to my eldest sister about this but as she lives abroad she has not seen what has been going on. However she came home last week and was shocked at the fact my parents are paying this woman £100.00 per week for 12.5 hours of cleaning and caring and she had to spend all week cleaning. ( this woman insisted she needed this many hours when he interviewed her). She also told my brother she could shop and do the garden. Mum wont let her shop as she likes me to take her or do it for her and I had to re-plant all the pots she did at the weekend as she made such a mess of it. She was put out that my sister did the cleaning but as my sis said she had too as the house was so dirty. To top it all she told my Mum today to ask my sister not to do her work. My parents are so frightened of upsetting my brother that they did not say anything. However I am livid and want to tell her to leave. My brother even took my Dad's cashcard and he draws the money fortnightly to pay her. Dad has Alzheimers so gets very upset and really want his card back and my parents are paying her so can be trusted to make sure she gets her money.
Because of my issues with him I have to be careful that my anger is not misread as a vendetta so I have e-mailed my sis and asked her to intervene.
Now to the financial question. She is being paid cash and does not pay any tax or NI ( which I know is wrong as I am a bookkeeper by trade) which is a shame as the Adult Care offered them some money to be spent for care but it had to be spent with receipts being shown. So my sister is hoping to take them to Switzerland when she comes home in a fortnight so they can spend a fortnight with her. I spoke to them tonight and they have agreed that if my brother does not get rid of her then I will . So the question is will she be due any notice period as basically she is paid cash?
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Comments
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I dont think the cash angle is the correct one to go on as no rules are been broken in the way that she is paid, she is providing a service to your parents just the same as a window cleaner etc. As long as no contract was drawn up between you then you can just turn round and ask her to leave, or cut her hours or pay if she wont go.
Just tell your dad to phone the bank and get a new card and pin to solve the cashcard issue.0 -
Within the first year it is quite easy to get rid of someone. There are very few rights. Obviously it would be sensible to put in writing that " Due to the changing needs of your parents care" her services will no longer be required.
http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1073793716&type=RESOURCES
The above may be useful. Of course if she was simply paid cash, then there probably wasn't acontract anyway.0 -
I can't see any come back that she would be willing to go through if she is only paid cash. She is presumably commiting benefit fraud so you can just stop without notice I would have thought.
Be careful of putting anything in writing relating to a job or your parents / brother may get into trouble if there is proof of employing someone under the table0 -
jamesb1239 wrote: »I dont think the cash angle is the correct one to go on as no rules are been broken in the way that she is paid, she is providing a service to your parents just the same as a window cleaner etc. As long as no contract was drawn up between you then you can just turn round and ask her to leave, or cut her hours or pay if she wont go.
Just tell your dad to phone the bank and get a new card and pin to solve the cashcard issue.
If she is employed by you then you cannot just ask her to leave. It is true enough that dismissing someone is easier during the first 12 months but you have to be careful as it could have reprocussions.
If there is no written contract she would still have a contract which would have statutory rights such as holiday pay so this would have to be considered and paid up if you let her go.
To me this sounds like employment rather than akin to a window cleaning contractThe Googlewhacker referance is to Dave Gorman and not to my opinion of the search engine!
If I give you advice it is only a view and always always take professional advice before acting!!!
4 people on the ignore list....Bliss!0 -
As a cleaner whether she is employed by your brother or self employed depends on several factors, if she considers herself self employed then you might be able to just end the verbal contract without notice, but I am no expert, maybe just ask her for her NI number for "the records" and see if she runs a mile.
I would doubt from what you say she is likely to take any legal action if you just tell her that she is no longer required.0 -
If she is being paid cash, then I assume she is working n a self employed basis? If so, I think you can just ask her to stop coming...
The problem will be your brothers reaction I guess - he may just decide to set someone elase on - maybe who makes decisions about this sort of thing should be formalised? In the longer term it is worth considering that your parents may, in the near or distant future, need to enable someone else to act on their behalf re: finances etc - so it may be worth looking into whether they would want their children (perhaps you and your sister) to apply for power of attorney, so that decisions about money, care etc can be made by someone who will act in their best interests - and I guess as you do most of the caring tasks, you are most likely to know what their needs and wants are, and to be able to supervise any care workers/cleaners employed.0 -
I can't see any come back that she would be willing to go through if she is only paid cash. She is presumably commiting benefit fraud so you can just stop without notice I would have thought.
Be careful of putting anything in writing relating to a job or your parents / brother may get into trouble if there is proof of employing someone under the table
It's a pretty big assumption, jumping from "being paid cash" to "commiting benefit fraud" - from the sounds of it the principal reason she is being paid cash is because the OP's brother is using his fathers cash card and has no other means of accessing his parents bank account because he has no valid legal authority to be doing this. Right now, the only evidence that anyone is doing something immoral and quite possibly illegal is the actions of the OP's brother - you are not supposed to use someone elses cash card with or without their permission, and if there is "bullying" going on by the brother to get access and control over the parents finances this is, at best, bordering on the unlawful.
If this individual is employed then she has rights. They may not be many, but they are there, and I would suggest that you consider what you would expect and feel like if you were in that situation. You may not be very happy about her - but it was your brother who put her into this situation, and she does not deserve to be penalised because of your poor family relationships. I do not mean that to sound criticical or harsh - just to point out that the primary issue here is your family relationships and she has simply fallen into the middle of this. My elderly aunt has a carer - her employment is determined by myself and my siblings (as her nearest kin) jointly. We decide what she does and how is is done, what she is paid etc - and we do so together. It could not be an easy position to be placed in, to be employed by one sibling only to discover that you are not what the others wanted and you are in the middle of a family dispute.
It seems a matter of relative ease, if you want to dispense with her, to give her a weeks notice and a reference. I would suggest you save your energy for the real problem here, which is working out how to deal with your brother!0 -
To cut a long story short my brothers and sisters and I are all in our 40's and 50's and Mum is 84 and Dad 90. My oldest brother always has been a big bully and I am the only one who does not speak to him as basically he persuaded Dad to invest in 3 failed business and has left them with a large never ending mortgage. I look after them on a day to day basis as I live near and they had a cleaner who came twice a week. She was not great with timekeeping but cleaned well and they got to be quite fond of her. However 3 months ago my brother decided they needed a carer/cleaner so he advertised and got someone then sacked the other lady and told her not to phone or visit them again. My Mum was really upset but they are also frightened so gave in. I was really incensed by his attitude of " I wont be overruled on this " and after some discussion with my sister' I agreed to give it time.
3 months has passed and things are not going well. They wont let her do any actual caring ( which I understand ) and my daughter and I go daily to put my Dad's cream on as he has a bad rash. I have been talking to my eldest sister about this but as she lives abroad she has not seen what has been going on. However she came home last week and was shocked at the fact my parents are paying this woman £100.00 per week for 12.5 hours of cleaning and caring and she had to spend all week cleaning. ( this woman insisted she needed this many hours when he interviewed her). She also told my brother she could shop and do the garden. Mum wont let her shop as she likes me to take her or do it for her and I had to re-plant all the pots she did at the weekend as she made such a mess of it. She was put out that my sister did the cleaning but as my sis said she had too as the house was so dirty. To top it all she told my Mum today to ask my sister not to do her work. My parents are so frightened of upsetting my brother that they did not say anything. However I am livid and want to tell her to leave. My brother even took my Dad's cashcard and he draws the money fortnightly to pay her. Dad has Alzheimers so gets very upset and really want his card back and my parents are paying her so can be trusted to make sure she gets her money.
Because of my issues with him I have to be careful that my anger is not misread as a vendetta so I have e-mailed my sis and asked her to intervene.
Now to the financial question. She is being paid cash and does not pay any tax or NI ( which I know is wrong as I am a bookkeeper by trade) which is a shame as the Adult Care offered them some money to be spent for care but it had to be spent with receipts being shown. So my sister is hoping to take them to Switzerland when she comes home in a fortnight so they can spend a fortnight with her. I spoke to them tonight and they have agreed that if my brother does not get rid of her then I will . So the question is will she be due any notice period as basically she is paid cash?
Does the cleaner work every day of the week? Or does she do it over say 4 days? If she is employed, and she gets paid £100 per week, then she will not need to pay Nat Insurance or Tax unless she has other jobs that take her over the weekly thresholds. She would be entitled to 28 days max holidays each year which includes all bank holidays (8 days), so 20 additional, but if she works only 3 days each week say, then she would only be entitled to a pro rata amount of holiday, which for 3 days would be 13.44 days paid holiday of however many hours each day that is worked, and 8 of them can be all the bank holidays, so in reality 5.44 days other than bank holidays. She would not qualify for sick pay as she does not work enough hours per week.
If however, she is self employed and it does rather sound as if she may be, then no holiday pay due as she would be entirely responsible for that herself.
However, I am not too sure of the redundency, but if she has been with your parents less than 2 years, then I do not think she is due anything. Direct gov web site has more info.
Contact a solicitor about getting power of attourney granted to you and your sister and get the bank card in your elder brothers possession cancelled as he is breaking law. Inform your fathers bank about it right away and possibly the police? How do you know if that is the only money being taken. Hate to say it, but I have seen it happen all too often.
Get is sorted sooner rather than later. Feel empowered.
Frances.0 -
Horseunderwater wrote: »Hi
However, I am not too sure of the redundency, but if she has been with your parents less than 2 years, then I do not think she is due anything. Direct gov web site has more info.
The cleaner has been working for three months so well short of the two years which would be needed to be entitled to redundancy pay.
If she is self-employed she is also not entitled to any notice. If she is an employee then she would be entitled to one week's notice as she has been employed for longer than a month.
Paid holidays:
Self-employed - no entitlement.
Employed - 12.07% of hours worked to effective date of termination. Any holiday already paid would be deducted.0 -
I have decided to bump up this thread for more advice. I recently went away for 2 weeks hold to my sis in Switzerland and my other sister and my aunt looked after the parents as the carer was on holiday. My brother is very intimidating and my sis and I got back from a trip to Italy to be greeted by an e-mail from my brother. My sister got very upset and said " I dont know whether I want to read this as it will only upset me". I did not realise till then how nervuous she is and how frightened of him she is. Anyway the e-mail had nothing written on it but had a document called For Review attached.
It was a Care Plan written out by this lady and here are a few excerpts:-
"
To ensure their home life to be as close to normal, while attending for both their wellbeing and domestic situations as they arise on a day to day basis while shadowing until their full confidence is gained and further care is required.
- xxxx requires help with feet washing.
- xxxx needs help with hair brushing.
- Shopping.
PERSONAL STATEMENT
In my time spent with xxxx and xxxxxx over the last 5 months I have noticed that my daily visits have appeared to enhanced xxxxs wellbeing, I feel this is due to our daily chats and banter, to the point I look forward to the daily warm welcome I receive.
With the repour I have built with xxxxxx with him now willing to share his gardening knowledge I feel I can grow a mean tomato
And have become very fond of the stories of old times he tells me.
Whiles gaining xxxxxxs trust this has enabled me to ensure that he keeps his high standards while maintaining his dignity "
My sister was horrified at this and e-mailed him back to say that as this concerned Mum and Dad then they should see the document. We also found out he had sent it to our other sister but obviously not to me. There then ensued a tirade of e-mails back and forth and we sought advice from our Aunt who was a carer herself for many years. She said she had spoken at length to our brother and told him that it was for all of us ( including Mum and Dad) to have a meeting to discuss what they want and need. My Mum had told this lady in July that when she ( the carer) came back from holiday at beginning September she wanted to drop the hours to three days a week instead of 5.
That day was this Monday and my sister in England called 1/2 way through the morning to say that her and my brother were coming to discuss the arrangements. I got really upset at being excluded again and after a tearful call to my aunt I went up to be there. As soon as I pulled up outside he came up and told me not to have an argument. So ensued a meeting with Mum , Dad us and the carer. My brother spoke to us and them like a Social Worker ( no disrespect meant) and waffled on about moving forward, making a plan etc. I was basically ignored and even said am I invisible here. He once again , with my sisters help, managed to keep the woman there 5 days as week. His wife works in the health service and had previously told my other sis that they just need to tick the boxes.
So things have been left but Mum and Dad are at least in charge of the money again as he had to give back the card when they went on holiday as my older sis and I insisted.
So yesterday I took Mum to town for 2 hours and then went up later with shopping to find her in a lot of pain struggling to cook the tea. I took over and fed them and did a few more things and then left. So although they are paying this woman £100.00 per week I am still doing at least 1-2 hours per day and more at weekends.
I am in quite dire straits financially and so yesterday suggested that maybe I take over from the lady and formalise my working relationship with them. My Mum is so frightened of my brother that she said she wasn't sure it was a good idea and I have agreed to leave it for a few weeks as I need a little time to ready my house for market. I can't afford my mortgage anymore so I am having to sell up ( it has been my home for 26 years).
So my question is am I being selfish thinking if my parent's wellbeing and thinking maybe I should look after them? When I was away some days they saw no one and one day my 24 year old daughter found my Mum in the supermarket very distressed as she had lost her bank card. She sorted her out, took her home, made them lunch and then went back and found the card.
I think that what I am going to do is wait a few weeks to get clear myself and then show my Mum and Dad the Review Document she sent. I know my Mum will be really upset that this woman feels she has the right to report on them to my brother and she hates this woman brushing her hair and would be horrified about the feet. My Mum is a very proud Irish lady and my Dad is a 90 year old Italian with Dementia ( and does not even remember he has tomatoes in the greenhouse let alone teaching someone to grow them!)
Sorry for the ramble just a bit of advice needed her. BTW I am officially my Mum and Dad's carer.0
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