Avoiding Probate

maryroberts

Firstly, apologies if this is in the wrong place - it's my first time on this website. My father is not expected to live for much longer (literally days) and I've been reading about probate and what to expect.

I am the executor of his Will, and sole beneficiary. I am also the registered attorney for his Enduring Power Of Attorney. My father's estate is very small (approx 11,000 pounds) and he owns no property or shares.

In order for me to avoid applying for Probate, which I understand is very lengthy, is it possible (or correct) for me (as Power of Attorney) to transfer some of my father's money from his bank account into my bank account? Basically he only has money in two bank accounts (at same bank) and some income bonds. I understand that if there is less than 5k then probate is not necessary.

I can't see what is wrong with making a transfer while he is still alive, rather than seeing the accounts frozen when he does pass away. I live abroad (but in UK for my father's final days) and I'm trying to minimise hassle, time & legal fees in applying for Probate if it is not strictly necessary.

Please can anyone offer some advice? Thank you.

DVardysShadow

maryroberts wrote: »

... I can't see what is wrong with making a transfer while he is still alive, rather than seeing the accounts frozen when he does pass away. I live abroad (but in UK for my father's final days) and I'm trying to minimise hassle, time & legal fees in applying for Probate if it is not strictly necessary.

I know nothing about this topic.

But to me, it is obvious that it cannot work and will just cause you more hassle. The reason would be that if you use the EPoA to transfer money, the money would still belong to your father and is still part of his estate and has to be dealt with as part of the probate process.

maryroberts

Thank you - I don't want to do anything wrong, just thought this would be a straight forward solution. Maybe I should speak either to his bank or a solicitor.

Savvy_Sue

My sympathies at this difficult time.

It might be complicated by being abroad, but if the estate is simple then obtaining probate doesn't have to be a lengthy process.

You take or post a copy of his death certificate to all the banks where accounts are held, and notify them of the death, leaving your details. You may be asked to show ID, but I was not asked for proof that I was executor - that comes later. It's worth ordering several copies of the death certificate, especially if you need to do any of this by post, so that you're not waiting for originals to come back to you.

They should write with a final figure, including interest, and details of what to do once you have obtained probate.

You use those figures to fill in the IHT and Probate forms, which you submit to the Probate Office of your choice. They invite you for an interview, where you swear you're doing what the will says (I'll know more about this in a week or so!), and then send you a Grant of Probate. Again, order extra copies of that, because you'll have to send that off to all the banks before the funds are released. We have opened a new account for all the money to pass through.

If any of your dad's possessions are particularly valuable that could complicate matters, as you do have to put a nominal value on them. Otherwise, it's fairly easy. We had some advice from a local accountant because we have some leeway about how to share the money out (mother and siblings).

However, if you're going to struggle to pay for the funeral without access to that money, note that banks can pay funeral bills direct from the deceased's accounts.

maryroberts

Thank you, Savvy Sue. I'm trying to read as much as poss about this so that I'm prepared. The "interview" part worries me as I must return home abroad fairly soon so that I don't lose my job! I can't afford to fly back to the UK just for an "interview" at the probate office.

I will ask the bank if they will release the money to me without probate, I have read that in some cases they do, if amounts are not large.

I feel bad about writing about this when my poor father is still clinging to life, but I like to be organised!

Churchmouse

OP, firstly sympathy at this difficult time. No matter how expected, or the release that it may be for your father, this is still a very sad time for you.

Secondly, probate is very straightforward for small uncomplicated estates. The forms are very easy, and nowadays much can be done to minimise the time delay. I live in London, my father died in Devon. Probate was granted within 6 weeks of his death ( within 3 weeks of applying) as I said I would accept a short notice appointment at the central London office ( and his estate was larger, and involved property). I was offered the option of doing the whole thing locally to me but declined since that was going to involve solicitor costs. I'd be wary of taking too much advice from either the solicitor or bank. They all wanted to "help" me in applying for probate ( at a ridiculous cost!!!!) stating that it can be very difficult. Poppycock! Ring the probate office for help and advice, I found them sympathetic, helpful and very willing. I realise your situation is different, but I honestly believe the best advice will come from the probate office. It might be that in your situation a solicitor will be your best option, but at least you'll know it's for your benefit not the solicitors. Good luck, and I hope the whole process is as painfree as possible.

Savvy_Sue

It's being abroad which will make life more difficult. Is there anyone else who could do this for you - another family member, for example? Because you can step down as executor and there are procedures for someone else to take over.

Probate office is very helpful and friendly on the phone. They realise we're often doing this for the first time and that we're all over the place.

Surfbabe

Where do you live? - If it is the USA it can cause lots of problems with the IRS if you are an executor and beneficiary of a UK Will. My mum died earlier in the year, left a will appointing my brother, sister and I as executors. Sister lives in USA - she has had to renounce being an executor completely and has to take legal advice in USA about inheritance, particularly for her children who are both under 18. She still has to be careful of her inheritance as she may be taxed upon it by IRS.

Hope you manage to sort it and thinking of you at this time

thorsoak

Surfbabe wrote: »

Where do you live? - If it is the USA it can cause lots of problems with the IRS if you are an executor and beneficiary of a UK Will. My mum died earlier in the year, left a will appointing my brother, sister and I as executors. Sister lives in USA - she has had to renounce being an executor completely and has to take legal advice in USA about inheritance, particularly for her children who are both under 18. She still has to be careful of her inheritance as she may be taxed upon it by IRS.

Hope you manage to sort it and thinking of you at this time

I worked (until last July) for a solicitor who specialised in wills & probates, and I didn't know this!

Important to us though - our daughter lives in US and was nominated as one of our executors ....will have to take advice on this and on her inheritance and that of our g/children over there.

Thanks for flagging that point.

maryroberts

thank you for the replies. I live in Greece so no IRS problems. Just an update - visited Dad's bank today and explained the whole situation. Very helpful indeed, she assured me that probate would not be necessary. When the times comes, just take the original Death Cert & Will and it should be straightforward to simply transfer the funds into my bank account without the need of probate, solicitor's fees etc.

RAS

Mary

if you father's whole estate is over £5K, you need probate. The banmk may be prepared to release the money but you need to speak to the Probate Office locally. Do not accept this advice as it is wrong.