Letting Agent Gone Bust - HELP!

Bickers1

Hi

Thanks to everyone who has replied to my posts.

We moved in in Feb 2006 and haven't received or signed any further agreements since then. This surprised me somewhat in the first couple of years we were here, with friends of mine in rented accommodation having to re-sign every six months, but we haven't given it a second thought recently. Since moving in, we have always contacted the LL directly with any maintenance issues, paid him the rent directly by standing order, and so on - we have had no contact at all with the letting agent and didn't know that they had been bankrupt for some time until we tried to contact them to to find out how/when they world return our deposit. A friend of mine - who is a private LL himself - has suggested that this may make us sitting tenants (potentially problematic to our LL). He has suggested that our best course of action, if the LL refuses to hand over our deposit, is to cancel our standing order for the last month's rent and use this as leverage. He also implied that the LL had been personally irresponsible in not claiming the deposit from the LA. The house and garden are in good order and, under normal circumstances, we would fully expect the deposit to be returned in full. Our bank statements show that payment for the deposit was made to the LA before moving in but, frustratingly, we can't lay our hands on our copy of the contact at the moment.

MissMoneypenny

Bickers1 wrote: »

A friend of mine - who is a private LL himself - has suggested that this may make us sitting tenants (potentially problematic to our LL).

I think that changed in February 1997 and was something like...if a tenancy contract wasn't in place, then from February 1997 the tenancy became an assured shorthold tenancy. It was done to protect the landlords.

You moved into the property in 2006 and had (I assume) an Assured shorthold tenancy, so when the fixed term expired you rolled onto a periodic tenancy (you give 1 months notice and landlord gives 2 months)

Bickers1 wrote: »

He has suggested that our best course of action, if the LL refuses to hand over our deposit, is to cancel our standing order for the last month's rent and use this as leverage.

I wouldn't pay the last months rent either. Before the deposit schemes came in to protect the tenant, a few landlords use to see the deposit as theirs and the tenants' had a struggle to get this back even if they didn't damage the property. Many tenants gave up, rather that going to court to get their money back. By not paying the last months rent, they got their deposit back.

princeofpounds

As said above, by paying the LL's agent you paid the LL directly from a legal point of view. His problem.

Evidence is useful simply because if it ever goes to court it will be decided on the balance of probability who was right.

Given your situation under the old deposit rules I would indeed not pay the last month's rent. I don't advise this under the new rules, but it means it's the LL who has to decide whether to bother with court and you have the money to help with your next move.

MissMoneypenny

princeofpounds wrote: »

Given your situation under the old deposit rules I would indeed not pay the last month's rent. I don't advise this under the new rules, but it means it's the LL who has to decide whether to bother with court and you have the money to help with your next move.

Just to add, it will only be worth the landlord going to court if he has proof of any damages.

By not paying the last months rent (as PoP says, under the old deposit rules), you have control of your deposit. If you pay the last months rent, the landlord will have control of your deposit.

tbs624

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

I wouldn't pay the last months rent either. Before the deposit schemes came in to protect the tenant, a few landlords use to see the deposit as theirs and the tenants' had a struggle to get this back even if they didn't damage the property. Many tenants gave up, rather that going to court to get their money back. By not paying the last months rent, they got their deposit back.

Not all of them: some got taken to court for rent unpaid and due under contract, and the possibility of that happening has to be taken into consideration.

tbs624

Bickers1 wrote: »

We moved in in Feb 2006 and haven't received or signed any further agreements since then. This surprised me somewhat in the first couple of years we were here, with friends of mine in rented accommodation having to re-sign every six months, but we haven't given it a second thought recently.

Many LAs like to push for 6 monthly renewals - they gain a big fat "renewals fee" from both LL and T that way. The law (Housing Act 1988) allows for a Statutory Periodic Tenancy to arise once the original Fixed Term has expired if the Ts remain in occupancy. The terms of the original FT contract apply, except for "determination" ie the ending of the tenancy , which as Miss M says, requires one month notice from T or 2 from the LL

Bickers1 wrote: »

A friend of mine - who is a private LL himself - has suggested that this may make us sitting tenants (potentially problematic to our LL).

It's nice that your friend wants to help but you are being given erroneous information by him. He needs to expand his knowledge of LL & T law.

If you want to try to recoup your money by withholding your final rent payment, you may want to seek advice from Shelter or the Tenancy Relations Officer from the Council's private sector rentals team first, so that you are fully aware of the potential ramifications.

Either way, take a full set of photographs ( including some close ups) of everything when you leave the property: that includes the meter readings, and the garden. this will afford you some protection from the LL seeking to claim from you. Remember that you have to leave the property in the same condition as when let, save for "fair, wear and tear". (There is an element of subjectivity to FW&T but it doesn't include dirt or damage.)

MissMoneypenny

tbs624 wrote: »

Not all of them: some got taken to court for rent unpaid and due under contract, and the possibility of that happening has to be taken into consideration.

I assume that would that have been because the deposit didn't cover the final rent and any damages (which the LL would have to prove)? There is no point in going to court for unpaid rent if you haven't made a loss i.e. the deposit covered the final rent.

By the tenant having the deposit, they should be able to negotiate with the landlord if he thinks there is any damage, before it gets to the court stage. I know that when I have taken people to court, I have had to show evidence to the court that I tried to sort the matter before court.

Yes, I know you landlords like to be the one who decides how much of the deposit goes back to the tenant, but the deposit schemes have stopped that. However, this deposit does not have the protection of the schemes. I know you are well aware tbs, of how some LLs use to behave before the protection of the deposit schemes came in. Good point that the OP should take advice on this matter though and not just take the advice of forum members.

If the OP has Contents Insurance with the optional extra of Legal Cover and no exclusion of taking legal action against their landlord, this hopefully should offer some legal protection (subject to the insurers written agreement that the case would be covered up to their limit) should there be any trouble with the landlord. Hopefully, it won't get to that stage.

Has the landlord being doing his annual Gas Safety Certificates, Bickers?

Bickers1

Unfortunately our last rent instalment won't quite cover the deposit. My OH called the LL a to give a month's notice a couple of weeks ago and we agreed over the phone to reduce our standing order and pay pro rata for the days remaining from the date of the standing order to the date we move out. We will be about £150 out of pocket if we cancel the last standing order and don't get the deposit back.

To reply to previous posts:
- No inventory was made when we moved in, although we, as tenants, requested this: the property was poorly finished when we moved in and the previous tenants had left some minor damage, which we reported to the LL.
- No gas safety certificates have ever been carried out.

We will take some photos and seek advice from our local CAB - we have an appointment booked tomorrow.

MissMoneypenny

Bickers1 wrote: »

- No gas safety certificates have ever been carried out.

Nasty...for the landlord, if the council finds out about that. He was required by law to have a Gas Safety Certificate within every 12 months.


From Shelter (England) website:-

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad..._precautions#2

Have gas safety checks carried out every year

All rented properties must have a valid gas safety certificates, a copy of which should be given to the tenants. This will check:

• the gas supply pipework
• that all gas appliances are working safely
• that all gas flues are working safely and are suitable
• that gas appliances have adequate ventilation.

By law, gas safety checks (and any work required) must be carried out by registered gas installers. You can ask to see their Gas Safe Register ID card.


Gas safety checks should be carried out at least once a year. If you are a tenant, it's your landlord's responsibility to arrange this.



From the Health and Safety Executive site:-

http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqlandlord.htm#faq2
What are my duties as a landlord in relation to gas safety?

You have duties under the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 to arrange maintenance by a Gas Safe Registered engineer [3] for all pipe work, appliances and flues, which you own and have provided for your tenants use. You must also arrange for an annual gas safety check to be carried out every 12 months by a Gas Safe Registered engineer. You must keep a record of the safety check for 2 years and issue a copy to each existing tenant within 28 days of the check being completed and issue a copy to any new tenants before they move in.


What if I break the regulations?

You are putting lives at risk and breaking the law. HSE gives gas safety a high priority and will take the appropriate action to ensure compliance with the regulations; this could result in a substantial fine and/or a custodial sentence. For further information visit our enforcement page[15].

SouthCoast

We will take some photos and seek advice from our local CAB - we have an appointment booked tomorrow.

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