Difficult Vendors

musing

The flat I am buying had a Homebuyers survey which said that there were high damp readings which should be investigated urgently. The report guest-timated that the work would cost £2500. The owners were keen to drop price by £2500 if we exchanged contracts by end of week however I was not happy to do that without getting a proper quote.

I asked the vendors, who own flat as a business hence don't live there, to get a damp surveyor to give quote, which would cost £215, as they have no vested interest in making up work that isn't needed as they just do the survey not the actual work as opposed to getting a 'free' quote from a damp & timber contractor who would quote for work that they do. The vendors have categorically said "no" even when I said that in the long run it may be cheaper & that I would be willing to contribute which would cost the three of us about £70 each.

So a d & t contractor went in & quoted £4400 plus costs for making good i.e. repainting, replacing flooring, refilling / reconnecting radiators, replacing new skirting boards & they said that the quote may increase if when furniture is removed damp is found on walls untested at time of inspection.

On Friday Vendors said that they wanted me to give them a renegotiation price. In light that I've only had one quote done & possible extra work when damp repairs are done I said that I was looking for a reduction of £8k.

It's now Sunday & I should hear back from EA tomorrow. My thoughts are what are vendors trying to hide if they are unwilling to spend £70 to find out the facts & why would they reduce price by £8k but not pay £70?

I don't want to pull out & go back to square one but at the same time I am thinking it may be the right thing to do.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Old_Git

unless this flat is a bargain I would walk away .
They may be hiding nothing ,but do you want the hassle off £8000 repairs

G_M

Crazy. Why would you expect/want the vendors to pay for the survey? It's for your benefit. If you want an independant survey, commission it yourself!

D&T specialists quoted for work they are to do? Highly unreliable they have a vested interest. £8000? Highly unlikely. as a vendor I'd just pull out of the sale.

How big is the flat? Which floor is it on out of total number of floors in block? What is the cause of the damp?

So-called 'damp' readings are very unreliable: they measure electrical conductivity. In wood, this works (damp conducts electrical current whilst wood does not). In plaster, mortar etc the componants can conduct electricity even if there is no damp.

So it's important to understand if there really IS damp, and if so what is causing it: Leaking gutters? poor pointing? Broken dpc? breached dpc? Internal condensation?........

By the way - have you looked at the lease? Who is responsible for the work? The leaseholder? or freeholder? Or management company(and do they have a contingency fund? If so how much?)

Fire_Fox

Is this a leasehold property? If so chances are that rising damp will be the responsibility of the freeholder and chargeable to ALL the leaseholders in the building. Are you sure that this is rising damp and not penetrating damp or condensation? Did your surveyor give the exterior of the property a clean bill of health? Have you had a builder look at the problem?

Jowo_2

I'm surprised the Homebuyers survey even guestimated the cost of fixing a potential damp problem. I've paid for a few surveys in the past, and not one of them has put a price on the potential cost to remedy a problem, suggesting instead for a specialist to come in and provide a quote. I've always found surveys to be extremely vague about suggesting the cost to remedy problems. Is the inclusion of price estimates a new thing?

You are correct that it is better for an independent damp surveyor to do it for a fixed fee rather than a general contractor. In a previous purchase, my partner arranged for a general contractor to do it and they added on fees for woodworm which the subsequent independent damp surveyor said there was no evidence of any infestation so the contractors do try their best to wheedle extra charges for work that doesn't need doing.
And why would you regard this greater deduction, if consent is given for it, as suspicious by the vendors?

musing

G_M,
Reason I thought vendors would pay for damp survey is it's their property & thought they would see sense in getting accurate costings. When they said no I said I would pay for it but then they began threatening to put property back on market if I didn't exchange which has put me off paying for a survey for a property I might not buy.

The flat is lower ground.

Contractor said that the damp appears to be due to a one or a combination of "absence of effective dpc / hygroscopic plaster / lateral penetration". Later in report they said "walls maybe subject to lateral penetration of dampness". They have advised tanking.

Jowo - The vendors say that they had a quote for damp done 6 months ago which I can see but as yet they haven't produced. The reason I am suspicious is that they are hurrying me to make a decision before I know the facts & I am wondering if the cost could be higher than I think.

Firefox - I have asked solicitor whether costs are met by maintenance fund, if problem is to do with outside of property, which I'm still awaiting answer.

G_M

musing wrote: »

G_M,
Reason I thought vendors would pay for damp survey is it's their property yes but it's YOU who is buying it. They are clearly happy living there in its current state. If you are questioning whether YOU would be happy, then YOU should check. Same if you want the electrics checked. Or the central heating. & thought they would see sense in getting accurate costings. When they said no I said I would pay for it but then they began threatening to put property back on market if I didn't exchange So would I which has put me off paying for a survey for a property I might not buy.I'm afraid that's just part of the cost/risk involved in house buying. Choose. Buy blind and hope it's all OK, or pay for a survey/or surveys and risk losing your money.

The flat is lower ground. Now alarm bells are ringing re damp!

Contractor said that the damp appears to be due to a one or a combination of "absence of effective dpc / hygroscopic plaster / lateral penetration". Later in report they said "walls maybe subject to lateral penetration of dampness". They have advised tanking.
I certainly WOULD advise a specialist, independant survey. If you are below ground level damp can be a major headache and cost.
Jowo - The vendors say that they had a quote for damp done 6 months ago which I can see but as yet they haven't produced. The reason I am suspicious is that they are hurrying me to make a decision before I know the facts & I am wondering if the cost could be higher than I think. Possible. They might well know they have a significant problem. Ask to see the quote before you fork out, but don't rely 100% on it, especially if it is low and downplays the damp.

Firefox - I have asked solicitor whether costs are met by maintenance fund, if problem is to do with outside of property, which I'm still awaiting answer.

Again, the lease issue is highly relevant. a) is the cost shared between all leaseholders but also b) check how well the management company works. Some are a nightmare and it might take months/years to get agreement to pay to get remedial work done. Others are very efficient, have contingency funds etc.

Speak to other owners in the block. Go knock on their doors! The solicitor may find the legal obligations - he won't find out how well it all works!

timmyt

musing wrote: »

The flat I am buying had a Homebuyers survey which said that there were high damp readings which should be investigated urgently. The report guest-timated that the work would cost £2500. The owners were keen to drop price by £2500 if we exchanged contracts by end of week however I was not happy to do that without getting a proper quote.

I asked the vendors, who own flat as a business hence don't live there, to get a damp surveyor to give quote, the buyer does surveys, basic home buying - are you a first time buyer as you sound inexpereienced which would cost £215, as they have no vested interest in making up work that isn't needed as they just do the survey not the actual work as opposed to getting a 'free' quote from a damp & timber contractor who would quote for work that they do. The vendors have categorically said "no" even when I said that in the long run it may be cheaper & that I would be willing to contribute which would cost the three of us about £70 each.

So a d & t contractor went in & quoted £4400 plus costs for making good i.e. repainting, replacing flooring, refilling / reconnecting radiators, replacing new skirting boards & they said that the quote may increase if when furniture is removed damp is found on walls untested at time of inspection.

On Friday Vendors said that they wanted me to give them a renegotiation price. In light that I've only had one quote done & possible extra work when damp repairs are done I said that I was looking for a reduction of £8k. no damp works cost that, even £4 is high, so you'll probably lose the sale, as the sellers will get tired of you

It's now Sunday & I should hear back from EA tomorrow. My thoughts are what are vendors trying to hide if they are unwilling to spend £70 to find out the facts & why would they reduce price by £8k but not pay £70?

I don't want to pull out & go back to square one but at the same time I am thinking it may be the right thing to do.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

good luck OP as it sounds like you may lose

Ulfar

Lower Ground floor or basement flat with damp = run away now.

Damp proofing a flat like this can be expensive and every so often will have to have bits redone. This means you will have higher maintenance costs.

The fact the vendors are quite happy to drop the price means they know there are problems and want to get this property sold.

DVardysShadow

musing wrote: »

... I asked the vendors, who own flat as a business hence don't live there, to get a damp surveyor to give quote, which would cost £215, as they have no vested interest in making up work that isn't needed as they just do the survey not the actual work as opposed to getting a 'free' quote from a damp & timber contractor who would quote for work that they do. The vendors have categorically said "no" even when I said that in the long run it may be cheaper & that I would be willing to contribute which would cost the three of us about £70 each.

.... My thoughts are what are vendors trying to hide if they are unwilling to spend £70 to find out the facts & why would they reduce price by £8k but not pay £70?

A point which does not seem to have been raised is that it could seriously damage the vendors position to get any survey done.

If you as buyer get a survey, then you know the position and you can make your own choices, but the sellers are not party to anything you learn. If they as seller are involved in commissioning a survey, then they would be deemed to know the outcome.

You have to respect their position. Different potential buyers will have different responses to the problems as they themselves understand the issues. If you force the vendor to dig too deep into the issues and then walk away, then you have forced your understanding onto the vendors and on to everyone else who contemplates buying.

Owain_Moneysaver

Ulfar wrote: »

Lower Ground floor or basement flat with damp = run away now.

Yup, and £8k for repair could turn into £18k or even £28k ...