PayPal Charge Back??

jebus197

Hey I sold an item to an acquaintance in another part of the country on the basis of a private sale. I live in Newcastle upon Tyne and he lives in Fife in Scotland. The agreement between the buyer and myself was 'buyer collect' and I didn't much mind how he did that. At one point he was almost prepared to come and collect it in person. However due to prior commitments he opted to engage the services of a delivery company instead. (Home Delivery Network). He bought and paid for the delivery service and then supplied me (via email) with the address label and tracking details. I retained a full copy of these tracking details.

However upon receipt of the buyers delivery instructions I noticed there was a problem with the weight he had paid the delivery company for the package. I informed the buyer of this immediately both via emails and a number of phone calls. It soon became evident that the buyer had deliberately attempted to play down the weight of the package (he paid for 8 KG's when he was aware the package was in excess of 25KG's). He however instructed me to give the package to the delivery company anyway when they came and he would pay any excess charge at his end. My impression was that by doing so he hoped to save some money and that the delivery company might not notice. (I have retained all emails showing him instructing me to do this.)

However after posting the package it became lost. The delivery company have since admitted responsibility for the loss and have said the package cannot now be found.

After this it also became clear that the buyer (again in an attempt to save money) had also selected not to pay for insurance on his item. Therefore the delivery company refused his claim for compensation.

Because of this, the buyer (since he paid through PayPal) then launched a PayPal dispute/claim against me. PayPal refused his claim on the basis that postage counts as an intangible service (and because I could provide proof of postage and tracking info to the last depot where the package was tracked to in Sunderland) this was not covered under their terms and conditions.

The buyer then launched a credit card chargeback against me via PayPal and my PayPal account is once again in deficit to the tune of £400 (which is the amount he paid originally).

The buyer openly admits that I am not responsible and that he knows me to be a 100% innocent party. I acted honourably and responsibly at all times and informed the buyer immediately of both the problems with the weight/postage and when the delivery company informed me of issues with the insurance.

However despite the buyer admitting that he knows me to be innocent (again I have emails with him saying he knows this) he has indicated his willingness to still go after me and to attempt to recover the money from me personally via this chargeback.

I cannot afford this as I am on a very low income and am disabled and survive on a very small amount of sickness benefit each week. I do not have this money any more as it was spent paying off my bills, several of which I was already in arrears with.

I have explained this to the buyer, but he still insists that he is willing to pursue me for this money regardless.

PayPal have not decided yet if they will contest the chargeback (my understanding is that they might not if they don't think they can win).

But clearly the buyer having lost his PayPal dispute with me and having been refused compensation by the delivery company due to lack of insurance, is now prepared to go after anyone - including me, someone he knows and openly admits is a completely innocent party in an attempt to recover his money.

My question is, do I have any legal grounds now on which I could contest this chargeback - and if so how? Who is responsible? I would welcome genuine legal opinions, rather than just general opinions as anything other than a legal opinion is likely to be very confusing at this point.

This has turned into a very acrimonious dispute, where it's clear the buyer doesn't care where he gets his money from, or who he gets it from, just so long as he gets it back.

He has sent many emails and although not directly threatening, they do often seem quite harassing and stressful. I have kept a record of all of my communications with him at all times, although he has called me many times also.

Browntoa

why not "reverse" the deal and go for a moneyclaim action against the buyer for the money ??

you can prove the collection of the item and the loss by the delivery company and the initial refusal by Paypal

jebus197

I don't know how to do that....

pcombo

All the buyer needs to do is contact his bank and get it reversed that way regardless what paypal say. Then your account will be - what they paid.

jebus197

I don't understand that last comment. Are you saying I'm stuffed? Is that a legally informed opinion?

pcombo

If the buyer loses the dispute all he has to do is contact his bank and they will get the moneyback regardless of the paypal outcome. So you could end up £400 down i think it was you said.


So in other words if this happens your screwed. But dont worry paypal cant put any of this your credit file nor can ebay.

jebus197

I still don't get it. I don't have a leg to stand on even though I've done nothing wrong? And why shouldn't I be worried about being £400 down? I don't have it and am surviving on a very low income. PayPal will send debt collectors after me, even though this was down to the guy skimping on postage and insurance. He knew he was doing this and I have emails with him admitting he did this.

PS

It has nothing to do with eBay. It was a private sale between two individuals.

unholyangel

jebus197 wrote: »

I still don't get it. I don't have a leg to stand on even though I've done nothing wrong? And why shouldn't I be worried about being £400 down? I don't have it and am surviving on a very low income. PayPal will send debt collectors after me, even though this was down to the guy skimping on postage and insurance. He knew he was doing this and I have emails with him admitting he did this.

PS

It has nothing to do with eBay. It was a private sale between two individuals.

Contact the guys bank in question?

missymugwump

Go here to learn all about it
http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/practice_directions/pd_part07e.htm

Its a user guide for money claim online which is a small claims court action against him
Register here
It's so simple

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

Don't let this person rip you off,you have proof,emails etc... so turn the tables on him
If your unsure or not confident to do this go to your local CAB and they will help you through the process


Good luck

adam.mt

Would I be correct in saying you haven't physically lost the money yet, it's just that your PayPal account is showing -£400?

If that's the case I would contact PayPal and dispute them passing the 'chargeback' on to you.

Failing that, yes go for a moneyclaim/Small Claims Court action naming both the buyer and PayPal for being in breach of contract. Given you've got all the evidence you should surely win.

jebus197

Yes that is correct.