Middle class spend-spend-spend mentality

Savvy_Sue

ringo_24601 wrote:

I do like the idea of a happy meal proposal lynzl

And I thought DH hit the lowest spot possible when at the end of a pragmatic discussion about our future he proposed, not on one knee, in our local ...

whosforachat

Continue to take pride in the fact that you do not need conspicuous delays of wealth to make yourself happy, and make sure you feel ashamed if you find yourself spending money on something whose primary purpose is to show other people how rich, and therefore cool, you are.

As with any fundamental disagreement in a relationship, I always think it is best to try to decide whether you would want to stay with the other person if you had to change because of that difference (in this case, if you had to become a high-spender). i.e. is the spending issue a deal-breaker?

I tend to think you cannot change to suit another person. I have tried in the past, but it has never worked.

I think it is fine to say "Darling, I would love to be the person you want me to be, but unfortunately I am not. If you can accept the person I am then great; if you cannot, then just let me know and we can split up." Obviously you have to be prepared for the other person to decide they cannot, but they usually decide they can.

hobo28

ringo_24601 wrote:

I secretly really want to be able to do the whole 3 holidays a year/big !!! diamond and flash car but i'm not gonna do it unless I know we can afford it, and have proper savings.

I've been trying to figure out a way of saying what I want whilst being politically correct and I can't.

So I'm just going to be blunt and sorry if I offend you or anyone for that matter.

If her friends similar lifestyles to her and she's come from money, I would be very wary that one day you will find yourself pressured to keep up. In fact, I'd put money on it. Its obvious you're already feeling it otherwise you wouldn't have posted the message.

I know many many couples who spend their lives "keeping up with the joneses". My partner is guilty sometimes of it and if I am honest, I have been guilty in the past too. I think secretly we all want to do it. There's a reason why BMW's are the best selling family car in the UK. Its cos people love to pose.

The issue is can you keep up without getting yourself into debt and is your relationship strong enough to survive if you can't or won't. Most of us can strike a decent balance, some will go OTT on credit cards etc.

The real strain will come when you are married, in a home with kids. Cos then she'll be nesting like mad and spending her days chatting to friends about their furniture etc. and all of a sudden you'll be under pressure if you can't also provide the latest "thing".

hobo28

Savvy_Sue wrote:

And I thought DH hit the lowest spot possible when at the end of a pragmatic discussion about our future he proposed, not on one knee, in our local ...

LOL

My best mate's wife (then GF) asked HIM to marry her when she got pregnant. he said "I'll think about it" then the next day on his way to work, called her and said "Oh go on then!".

Now THAT's romantic! A standard all us blokes should aspire to!

[Deleted User]

If her friends similar lifestyles to her and she's come from money, I would be very wary that one day you will find yourself pressured to keep up. In fact, I'd put money on it. Its obvious you're already feeling it otherwise you wouldn't have posted the message.

Of course I feel pressured to keep up. Its just not directly from her, she gets just as annoyed about them bragging. I'm using this pressure positively - i'm trying my hardest to get a promotion at work and increase my earnings. This does seem to be working as I'm getting more responsibilities. Sometimes I need a bit of pressure to get the best out of myself.

Anyway, this thread has helped me vent my spleen and secret fustrations. We are very much in love and I know as long as we aren't too poor, money shouldn't be a big problem

In terms of proposal, i was thinking a bit more of a balloon ride and champagne, or maybe something abroad. I want it to be really special though. There's a bit of a 'simcha queue' at the moment (simcha is yiddish for 'a celebration' e.g. wedding/bar mitzvah/birth/engagement') so it's going to take some careful timing. There's at least 5 weddings and 1 bar mitzvah in the next year.

Mrs_pbradley936

I suppose there will be an expectation to be as good as or better than the last simcha (thanks for explaining that). You could always elope and get married in a registry office with passers-by as the witnesses. What could be more romantic than that? Plus you could put the spin on it all by saying “We wanted to do something totally different, all these simchas have become so alike and so boring we thought we would break the mould.” There you, are I have saved you a fortune and turned you into Prince Charming.

[Deleted User]

And upset my 89 year old grandad and 80 year old grandmother who wouldn't see their eldest grandson get married? I would never consider eloping, it's just not the 'done thing' and I only know of one jewish registry office. Personally I think it's a bit selfish.

I'm not religious, but I do like the traditions. As far as I know, there's been an unbroken chain of Jewish marriages in my family for over 3000 years. I don't plan to break the chain, its bad enough the fate our family name rests on only 3 boys.

As Tevye said 'Without our traditions our lives would be as shaky as... as a fiddler on the roof'

Sorry, i watched fiddler on the roof last weekend for the first time.

I went to a wedding this summer that cost > 45K. Top london hotel, top kosher catering (200 quid a head!!!) - it was the worst i've ever been too because no one actually thought the marriage would last more than a year (the food was nice though). My motto is it's better to put thought and effort into things than money. As long as the right people are there and the venue is reasonable, I'd be happy and I think so would gf (she's already said she would want a small wedding).

margaretclare

Hi ringo_24601

Good for you. Stick to what you believe in. About expensive weddings, I hear about them all the time and they're not only Jewish. I am completely unconvinced that any wedding - which is a public commitment made between two people and hopefully in the presence of whatever God they believe in - has to cost all those thousands. My first wedding was a traditional one in a village church in Yorkshire in 1957. My second was in a Methodist church is Essex in 2002. Neither of them cost anything like the small fortunes that you hear bandied about as a 'need'.

I am with you on your views on eloping. My eldest daughter did just that in 1980. We were informed by phone the following day, and I have never seen anyone - man or woman - cry as her Dad cried that day. Me, I couldn't watch the famous Royal wedding which happened that year, and we had it in our faces all over the place - extra TV sets in the hospital where I worked at the time. It was years before I could even look at wedding pics in a photographer's window. I don't think her Dad ever really accepted it, up to the day of his death in 1992, and he never got to give either of his daughters away. Our younger daughter, when she married in 1993, insisted on walking up the aisle alone, preceded by her nephew as ring-bearer and followed by her 4 bridesmaids. There was no shortage of people who were willing to give her away, but she refused. It was her Dad's job and no one should take his place.

You would probably disapprove of my DH who walked completely away from all those traditions many years ago - he found them stifling, claustrophobic, intrusive. His bro disapproved of our marrying in church although he doesn't believe in God and we do! DH's first cousin, however, was happy to be his best man, and he's a practising Jew. As a non-Jew I can't understand the nuances of all this. There are a lot of cousins on both sides who have cut him out completely. We're on good terms with the cousin who was his best man, and I know from what they say that kosher food is a lot more expensive.

I'm unlikely to see my eldest granddaughter get married either - have only recently discovered that she's gay!

With very best wishes

Margaret

tomstickland

conspicuous delays of wealth

Yes, I've had that problem too.

[Deleted User]

You would probably disapprove of my DH who walked completely away from all those traditions many years ago

Nah, I'm quite relaxed as far as that goes, it's personal choice, but I know people ostracised by their families for 'marrying out'. Judaism can be really hard to figure out, due to it's many branches and (often conflicting) views. I kind of wish religious education at school was better, I know we did not cover anything about reform or other more liberal branchs of Judaism.

I'm surprised that RE isn't more important considering what a mixing pot the UK is - yesterday I had to email someone quite high up at work to let them know that a 'corporate day out at the races' happened to coinside with both the Jewish new year AND the Muslim festival of Ramadan. I received a 'sorry for the conflict' email back and now feel quite excluded from a pretty major corporate celebration.

BTW Being gay doesn't necessarily rule out a wedding anymore