What a pickle - SOA for DMP, please advise

Lee_m

Hi Everyone,

I have been intouch with a debt charity and went through my income and expenditure. In the areas I was unsure about the advisor told me that there were guidelines on amounts that could be applied. So, I let the advisor take the lead in these areas. The lady even said that there would be an allowance for tobacco. When we received the hard copy, I realised that my husbands DLA had been taken into account. I don't think the advisor asked me about my husbands care costs and so were not mentioned in the original call and from what I had read previously (maybe incorrect info) I thought that when it came to DLA it was placed in the income and then the entire amount was deducted as an expenditure for the purposes it was intended. Now as it stands based on our and their guideline amounts we have a deficit, so when I rang back they advised us to look at our expenditure again and come back to them. I'm not sure whether I should be looking at a DMP or DRO. Unfortunately some of the debt accrued has been quite recent and so I think a DRO is probably not an option (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I have been advised on the BR forum to contact the CAB, but wanted some of your expert advice also.

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet
Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household......... 2
Number of cars owned.................... 1
Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 0
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits (Inc. DLA & CA).......................... 1606
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 1606
Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 0
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 0
Electricity............................. 87
Gas (inc. Arrears)................... 87
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates (Inc. Arrears)............ 45
Telephone (land line & Internet)..... 45
Mobile phone............................ 20
TV Licence.............................. 12
Satellite/Cable TV (Half price offer).................. 24.5
Internet Services....................... 0
Groceries etc. ......................... 471
Clothing................................ 50
Petrol/diesel........................... 130
Road tax................................ 19
Car Insurance........................... 25
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 20
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 44
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses (inc. 1 Annual School trip + Sports & Pocket Money)............ 45
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 0
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 0
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 0
Haircuts................................ 22
Entertainment........................... 40
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 41
Care Expenses (Covered by DLA).......... 290
Newspaper/Magazines..................... 13
Dry cleaning............................ 10
Tobacco................................. 151
Total monthly expenses.................. 1691.5

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 500
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 500

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Credit Card (Me)....................1669......0.........0
Credit Card (Me)....................1490......0.........0
Credit Card (Me)....................2160......0.........0
CCJ (Me)...............................982.......0.........0
Council (Joint).........................2277......0.........0
Overdraft (Joint)......................200.......0.........0
Overdraft (Me)......................307.......0.........0
Door Step Lender (Me)............391.......0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................76........0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................502.......0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................1081......0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................543.......0.........0
Store Card (Me).....................290.......0.........0
Store Card (Me).....................1120......0.........0
Credit Card (Me)....................1215......0.........0
Total unsecured debts..........14303.....0.........-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 1,606
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,691.5
Available for debt repayments........... -85.5
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 0
Amount short for making debt repayments. -85.5
Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 500
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -14,303
Net Assets.............................. -13,803
Created using the SOA calculator at www.makesenseofcards.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using IE browser.

Thankyou

nic_santorini

I know I am going to be really controversial here - but here goes.
1. £1600 per month on benefits - with no job - what is the reason for not having a job? Too much benefit?
2. Who kept giving you credit when you didn't have any employment?
That is a staggering amount of benefit when two people can work their butts off full time and not bring that much in.
..
seriously is this a spoof SOA - all benefits and you spend it on entertaining, haircuts and fags and food - you are having a laugh aren't you!! If this is NOT a spoof, you should really think about your priorities because they are just WRONG WRONG WRONG - no wonder the government are clamping down on benefits if you are clearly throwing them down the drain.
Sorry I can not be helpful on this occasion but I am flabbergasted!!

Tixy

Hi

Which charity did you speak to?

It seems like you have put in the max recommended amounts for each item. In practice this is not how DMPs are usually done. You need to allow yourselves enough to live but still need to be able to start repaying your debts.
I appreciated the amounts below are not what you are necessarily spending but will put in some suggestions as to how you could get a DMP to work, looks like you need to cut back by say at least £200 per month.

Lee_m wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

I have been intouch with a debt charity and went through my income and expenditure. In the areas I was unsure about the advisor told me that there were guidelines on amounts that could be applied. So, I let the advisor take the lead in these areas. The lady even said that there would be an allowance for tobacco. When we received the hard copy, I realised that my husbands DLA had been taken into account. I don't think the advisor asked me about my husbands care costs and so were not mentioned in the original call and from what I had read previously (maybe incorrect info) I thought that when it came to DLA it was placed in the income and then the entire amount was deducted as an expenditure for the purposes it was intended. Now as it stands based on our and their guideline amounts we have a deficit, so when I rang back they advised us to look at our expenditure again and come back to them. I'm not sure whether I should be looking at a DMP or DRO. Unfortunately some of the debt accrued has been quite recent and so I think a DRO is probably not an option (Please correct me if I'm wrong). I have been advised on the BR forum to contact the CAB, but wanted some of your expert advice also.

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet
Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household......... 2
Number of cars owned.................... 1
Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 0
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits (Inc. DLA & CA).......................... 1606
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 1606
Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 0 is this paid by benefits? presumably if you haven't put the cost in then you haven't put the income in either?
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 0 as rent is this covered by CT benefit?
Electricity............................. 87 what do you actually spend here? I would imagine you are spending less than this? closer to 50 I would think would be reasonable
Gas (inc. Arrears)................... 87
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates (Inc. Arrears)............ 45
Telephone (land line & Internet)..... 45
Mobile phone............................ 20
TV Licence.............................. 12
Satellite/Cable TV (Half price offer).................. 24.5 not sure if this is usually allowed in a DMP?
Internet Services....................... 0
Groceries etc. ......................... 471 what do you really spend? many people feed a family of 4 for £200, maybe you could put in £300 here.
Clothing................................ 50
Petrol/diesel........................... 130 is this actual spend? it looks quite high considering neither of you work?
Road tax................................ 19
Car Insurance........................... 25
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 20
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 44
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses (inc. 1 Annual School trip + Sports & Pocket Money)............ 45
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 0
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 0
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 0
Haircuts................................ 22
Entertainment........................... 40
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 41
Care Expenses (Covered by DLA).......... 290
Newspaper/Magazines..................... 13
Dry cleaning............................ 10
Tobacco................................. 151 do you both smoke? How much do you actually spend?
Total monthly expenses.................. 1691.5

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 500
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 500

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Credit Card (Me)....................1669......0.........0
Credit Card (Me)....................1490......0.........0
Credit Card (Me)....................2160......0.........0
CCJ (Me)...............................982.......0.........0
Council (Joint).........................2277......0.........0
Overdraft (Joint)......................200.......0.........0
Overdraft (Me)......................307.......0.........0
Door Step Lender (Me)............391.......0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................76........0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................502.......0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................1081......0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................543.......0.........0
Store Card (Me).....................290.......0.........0
Store Card (Me).....................1120......0.........0
Credit Card (Me)....................1215......0.........0
Total unsecured debts..........14303.....0.........-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 1,606
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,691.5
Available for debt repayments........... -85.5
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 0
Amount short for making debt repayments. -85.5
Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 500
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -14,303
Net Assets.............................. -13,803
Created using the SOA calculator at www.makesenseofcards.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using IE browser.

Thankyou

fatbelly

Hi

Looks like a DRO to me, but not for much longer if interest is being added.. The DLA will go in as an 'in' and an 'out' (official guidance) so your intermediary can ignore some of these expenditure items (you're showing an £85 loss anyway and can show up to £50 surplus).

Of course you will have to live within your income so Tixy's comments are helpful, unlike some others

Lee_m

nic_santorini wrote: »

I know I am going to be really controversial here - but here goes.
1. £1600 per month on benefits - with no job - what is the reason for not having a job? Too much benefit?
2. Who kept giving you credit when you didn't have any employment?
That is a staggering amount of benefit when two people can work their butts off full time and not bring that much in.
..
seriously is this a spoof SOA - all benefits and you spend it on entertaining, haircuts and fags and food - you are having a laugh aren't you!! If this is NOT a spoof, you should really think about your priorities because they are just WRONG WRONG WRONG - no wonder the government are clamping down on benefits if you are clearly throwing them down the drain.
Sorry I can not be helpful on this occasion but I am flabbergasted!!

You are right, you're not being helpful.

If you read my entire post you will see that some amounts were advised to me based on "guidelines" (I honestly don't know how much I spend on entertaining (maybe the occasional sunday lunch), haircuts (When required), Fags (my Husband has mental health issues and has tried many times to give them up, but his personality completely changes). In addition my husband is disabled and I'm his fulltime carer, (I think I'm on about 30 pence an hour based on the CA I receive). His disability also makes working impossible. I'm not a shirker (I worked from the age of 13). You have no idea of my personal circumstances and so I don't appreciate your assumptions. But thanks for taking the time to look anyway.

dancingfairy

o.k Well a dmp is possibly not your best option. Yes it would be technically possible but assuming that your financial situation/health is unlikely to change then it would take a long, long time to pay off 14,000 assuming you could free up several hundred pounds a month and still you we lould need to get the lenders to freeze interest.
A dro? I don't know anything about them - sorry.
An IVA - again would probably not be suitable given you appear to have no assets or property to protect.
I feel that really, in truth that unless there is some reason for not going bankrupt then bankruptcy may well be your best option. I'm intrigued by why a dmp was recommended to you- was any reason given?
I also would have thought that if you include the DLA as income then you would also include the associated care costs.
I'm not sure which charity you contacted but there's nothing wrong with consulting more than one - just make sure it is a proper charity organisation. - try CCCS or Nationald Debtline, CAP or your local CAB.
df

dancingfairy

fatbelly wrote: »

Hi

Looks like a DRO to me, but not for much longer if interest is being added..

Could they do one each or is it a joint thing with regards to the max amount allowed?
df

Lee_m

Thanks Tixy & Fatbelly for your comments.

Statement of Affairs and Personal Balance Sheet
Household Information
Number of adults in household........... 2
Number of children in household......... 2
Number of cars owned.................... 1
Monthly Income Details
Monthly income after tax................ 0
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits (Inc. DLA & CA).......................... 1606
Other income............................ 0
Total monthly income.................... 1606
Monthly Expense Details
Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 0
Rent.................................... 0 is this paid by benefits? presumably if you haven't put the cost in then you haven't put the income in either? - Yes
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 0 as rent is this covered by CT benefit? - Yes
Electricity............................. 87 what do you actually spend here? I would imagine you are spending less than this? closer to 50 I would think would be reasonable - We have a metered supply, but we usually spend between £15 - £20 p/w (even in the summer).
Gas (inc. Arrears)................... 87
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates (Inc. Arrears)............ 45
Telephone (land line & Internet)..... 45
Mobile phone............................ 20
TV Licence.............................. 12
Satellite/Cable TV (Half price offer).................. 24.5 not sure if this is usually allowed in a DMP?
Internet Services....................... 0
Groceries etc. ......................... 471 what do you really spend? many people feed a family of 4 for £200, maybe you could put in £300 here. - This was a "guideline" amount we received. I think my mistake is just buying groceries in dribs and drabs, rather than a big weekly shop. I would be interested in how I can achieve better though.
Clothing................................ 50
Petrol/diesel........................... 130 is this actual spend? it looks quite high considering neither of you work? - We have an old diesel car and I live in a very rural location. Another "guideline" amount, but I would guess I spend between £25 - £30 p/w
Road tax................................ 19
Car Insurance........................... 25
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 20
Car parking............................. 0
Other travel............................ 44
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses (inc. 1 Annual School trip + Sports & Pocket Money)............ 45
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 0
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 0
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 0
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 0
Haircuts................................ 22
Entertainment........................... 40
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 41
Care Expenses (Covered by DLA).......... 290
Newspaper/Magazines..................... 13
Dry cleaning............................ 10
Tobacco................................. 151 do you both smoke? How much do you actually spend? - We've reduced this from £225.00, but will make every effort to reduce further.
Total monthly expenses.................. 1691.5

Assets
Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 500
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 500

No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
Credit Card (Me)....................1669......0.........0
Credit Card (Me)....................1490......0.........0
Credit Card (Me)....................2160......0.........0
CCJ (Me)...............................982.......0.... .....0
Council (Joint).........................2277......0....... ..0
Overdraft (Joint)......................200.......0.........0
Overdraft (Me)......................307.......0.........0
Door Step Lender (Me)............391.......0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................76........0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................502.......0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................1081......0.........0
Catalogue (Me)......................543.......0.........0
Store Card (Me).....................290.......0.........0
Store Card (Me).....................1120......0.........0
Credit Card (Me)....................1215......0.........0
Total unsecured debts..........14303.....0.........-

Monthly Budget Summary
Total monthly income.................... 1,606
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,691.5
Available for debt repayments........... -85.5
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 0
Amount short for making debt repayments. -85.5
Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 500
Total HP & Secured debt................. -0
Total Unsecured debt.................... -14,303
Net Assets.............................. -13,803
Created using the SOA calculator at www.makesenseofcards.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using IE browser.

Thankyou for your input so far.

Lee_m

fatbelly wrote: »

Hi

Looks like a DRO to me, but not for much longer if interest is being added.. The DLA will go in as an 'in' and an 'out' (official guidance) so your intermediary can ignore some of these expenditure items (you're showing an £85 loss anyway and can show up to £50 surplus).

Of course you will have to live within your income so Tixy's comments are helpful, unlike some others

Some of the credit is quite recent and though not intentional (and maybe irresponsible) thought that perhaps there might be a fraud implication. Is there a timescale for this? Would the DLA be treated the same "In" & "Out" under a DMP?

Thankyou for your reply.

Ames

I had the same thing, with similar debts. I went to CCCS who were happy to take my DLA as income, but didn't allow me anythinig for care needs. I went to CAB who advised Bankruptcy. I phoned National debtline for advice about what I could include in the BR and they were horrified. They said that as there was nothing, really, that the creditors could do to me (ie no earnings to arrest, no house to put a charging order on, and my credit rating was already screwed) I should just keep making token payments. While doing this I've been able to save bits up so that I can try full and final settlements. I've also had some success with CCA requests.

It drives me mad that they can do that with DLA. Have you tried MIND? They were helpful to me, with things like what DLA can and can't be counted for.

If you want more help just send me a pm, I'm a bit erratic at the moment with my MH and I might not be able to keep up with the thread, but I'm happy to help if I'm reminded.

Lee_m

dancingfairy wrote: »

o.k Well a dmp is possibly not your best option. Yes it would be technically possible but assuming that your financial situation/health is unlikely to change then it would take a long, long time to pay off 14,000 assuming you could free up several hundred pounds a month and still you we lould need to get the lenders to freeze interest.
A dro? I don't know anything about them - sorry.
An IVA - again would probably not be suitable given you appear to have no assets or property to protect.
I feel that really, in truth that unless there is some reason for not going bankrupt then bankruptcy may well be your best option. I'm intrigued by why a dmp was recommended to you- was any reason given?
I also would have thought that if you include the DLA as income then you would also include the associated care costs.
I'm not sure which charity you contacted but there's nothing wrong with consulting more than one - just make sure it is a proper charity organisation. - try CCCS or Nationald Debtline, CAP or your local CAB.
df

What happened was that we contacted one of the charirties you mentioned and although they were aware of the DLA they didn't ask about care costs and so a DMP was advised as the best course of action. It was only when I received the hard copy with letters of authority that I realised that my husbands care costs were not taken into account. I assumed *Wrong I know* for the purposes of a DMP that the DLA was treated as a living cost in it's entirety and the full amount was placed under the expenditure.

Thankyou for taking to time to reply.