The good life tv comedy programme could this be done today

COOLTRIKERCHICK

when ever its going to happen, we will eventually run out of oil...

cootambear

Soubrette wrote: »

Unless you believe that resources are infinite them it's hard to imagine that population can be infinite too

Personally I would like to see more organic foods - I believe it is more less 'efficient' but does create more jobs and I don't believe that is a bad thing.

Sou

Yes I do, because we find more efficient uses of current resorces, discover more quantities of resources that are currently hidden, and create new technologies for new sources of power. And if you think the last bit is scfi, consider that 100 years ago no one imagined that uranium or the sun could be a fuel source.

cootambear

Davesnave wrote: »

I'm not an organic food purist, but I like to produce what I can without resort to a large chemical input. I drive a car and use fossil fuels, but I notice how attitudes to fuel use are changing, and how recent price hikes - 30% or so in a year - are affecting the big food retailers, even Mr T. My oil fired Aga will be getting the chop soon.

There has been no significant food inflation for a while, but it will come, along with with a further redistribution of family budgets, especially if the false interest rates currently enjoyed break loose again in a year or two.

If you want to scrabble for potatoes, I have a field. That's my pension. Gold is hard to digest. Photo-voltaic cells on the roof are a better long term investment, methinks.

I dont want to deny underdeveloped countries development, that is a green argument. As for alternatives to oil based fertilisers, research is already underway, heres just one example.....

(((www2))).anba.com.br/noticia_tecnologia.kmf?cod=8940250

Re pesticides, GM crops can be made disease and pest resistant.

Gigervamp

In the US, GM cotton and soybean crops have been made to be resistant to glyphosate, unfortunately now the weeds have become resistant too. Farmers cope with Round-up resistant weeds. Also, GM crops are not fertile so farmers can't save the seeds to grow the next batch and have to buy in new seeds each year. GM is not the answer.

cootambear

Gigervamp wrote: »

In the US, GM cotton and soybean crops have been made to be resistant to glyphosate, unfortunately now the weeds have become resistant too. Farmers cope with Round-up resistant weeds. Also, GM crops are not fertile so farmers can't save the seeds to grow the next batch and have to buy in new seeds each year. GM is not the answer.

As with antibiotics, indiscriminate roundup use has led to weeds breeding for resistance. GM improves crop size, resistance to disease and pests, and resistance to herbicides. For weeds that are not resistant to roundup, GM crops could be bred that are resistant to other herbicides. This then gives the result of having to use less herbicide which then lowers the chances of weeds breeding for resistance. As with any other technology, care has to be taken. Therefore rigorous trials must ensure that the traits engineering by GM in a particular crop can not be passed on by cross pollination to weeds, which would of course defeat the object.

COOLTRIKERCHICK

cootambear wrote: »

Yes I do, because we find more efficient uses of current resorces, discover more quantities of resources that are currently hidden, and create new technologies for new sources of power. And if you think the last bit is scfi, consider that 100 years ago no one imagined that uranium or the sun could be a fuel source.

regardless of what method they use to extract the oil....it WILL eventually run out... unless there is a pipe attached to the world somewhere which is a hidden universe source...

its like shopping, and buy a huge amount of a certain item, because they are no longer going to make it.... for the first year or so... you use it without a thought becasue all you can see if this big huge pile... then as time goes by, your stash is dwindling, and it gets to a point... where you need it to last longer... so you dont use so much, to ty and make it last longer.... but eventually it Will run out...

Nothing lasts forever.....

Lotus-eater

cootambear wrote: »

As with any other technology, care has to be taken. Therefore rigorous trials must ensure that the traits engineering by GM in a particular crop can not be passed on by cross pollination to weeds, which would of course defeat the object.

Yesss

I'm sure "care" was taken with the last lot of GM crops and look what's happened. We mess with nature at our peril.

Oil will run out and our agriculture is based entirely on it, entirely, it couldn't exist without it (and nor could we atm) and many people believe that we haven't got enough time before oil runs out, to get new technologies into place. Or until it gets so expensive it's illogical to farm with it.

The population of the world is totally dependant on oil, without it there can simply be no 6 billion people in the world, who's knows what the real number the earth can support without oil, but I've heard figures much much lower than 6 billion.

The way we are farming today isn't sustainable, vitamins and minerals in vegetables and meat have plummetted in the last decades, as we take from the soil and don't put back. That's probably the most important reason to grow your own.

You can insist that new technologies can jump in and take the place of oil in farming, this is not the point, the point is, that the way it is being done is wrong, our food crops are devaluing in food value, because we basically are growing cops in deserts with artificial fertilisers.
It could be argued that a return to more sympathetic methods would be a health benefit to the soil (and to wildlife in general) and to us.

Not sure how we got onto this, from talking about a couple living a more healthy self sufficient life

mardatha

Well it's good to talk and share ideas and learn new things - dont stop talking !

cootambear

Lotus-eater wrote: »

Yesss

I'm sure "care" was taken with the last lot of GM crops and look what's happened. We mess with nature at our peril.

What has happened? Has a strain of barley become a triffid? Do dandelions now burgal your house? Has the fieldmouse turned carnivore? I`m not sure what you mean by `messing with nature`. Human beings are part of nature and have been selectively breeding for thousands of years. Those carrots we lovingly plant are descended from a wild variety with a root as thin as a matchstick. Should we plant and eat only those?

Oil will run out and our agriculture is based entirely on it, entirely, it couldn't exist without it (and nor could we atm) and many people believe that we haven't got enough time before oil runs out, to get new technologies into place. Or until it gets so expensive it's illogical to farm with it.

If we didnt farm with it we would starve, end of. Billions would die. I`m sure some greens would like that, they would see it as `redressing natures balance`, an answer to `overpopulation`. To say that we should stop using oil in agriculture until alternatives are in place is like saying we should have stopped walking until transport came along.

The population of the world is totally dependant on oil, without it there can simply be no 6 billion people in the world, who's knows what the real number the earth can support without oil, but I've heard figures much much lower than 6 billion.

One figure I`ve heard of is 180 million. By a philosopher called Tertullian in 200 ad. Quote;

‘We are burdensome to the world, the resources are scarcely adequate for us… already nature does not sustain us.’

(www).spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/7723/

The way we are farming today isn't sustainable, vitamins and minerals in vegetables and meat have plummetted in the last decades, as we take from the soil and don't put back. That's probably the most important reason to grow your own.

There are no significant nutritional benefits in organic foods.

You can insist that new technologies can jump in and take the place of oil in farming, this is not the point,

I thought the point was discussing the use of oil in agriculture?

the point is, that the way it is being done is wrong,

Apologies I`m unclear, what is being done that is wrong, GM?

our food crops are devaluing in food value,

wrong, see above

because we basically are growing cops in deserts with artificial fertilisers.

Again, what is wrong with using artificial fertilisers, and why is it especially wrong in deserts? I thought we should be opposed to deserts spreading?

It could be argued that a return to more sympathetic methods would be a health benefit to the soil (and to wildlife in general) and to us.

It is precisely the developments in agricultural techniques and technology that now provide the opportunity for a balanced and varied diet for all. Kids in the 30`s had rickets.

Not sure how we got onto this, from talking about a couple living a more healthy self sufficient life

It was about whether it would be practical for us to emulate Tom and Barbara.

Lotus-eater

http://eartheasy.com/blog/2009/05/fruits-and-vegetables-yielding-fewer-nutrients-than-in-the-past/ and it's not the only one, there are loads out there.

You're really quite full of it, aren't you? It's very difficult dicussing something with someone, when they fail to understand the basics you are trying to explain. You "misunderstand" the questions, or answers and twist the meaning into something you want to say.
You don't understand what people are trying to say, because you don't understand what they are saying.