The good life tv comedy programme could this be done today

Gigervamp

If we didnt farm with it we would starve, end of. Billions would die. I`m sure some greens would like that, they would see it as `redressing natures balance`, an answer to `overpopulation`. To say that we should stop using oil in agriculture until alternatives are in place is like saying we should have stopped walking until transport came along.

But don't you see? We WILL HAVE TO farm without oil at some point, because it's going to run out. My BIL works in the oil industry. He warned hubby and I two years ago that it was going to get expensive this year and he was correct, our heating oil is now double the price that we were paying in 2008.

Food grown using oil based fertilisers and planted and harvested with heavy machinery that gobbles up oil, will become more expensive as the price of oil goes up. We've already seen a big increase in food prices, even for the basic things over the last couple of years and it's not going to get better.

This is why it's incredibly important that people start growing some of their own food and we need an increase in community gardening schemes for those who don't have any gardens/land.

As you're so pro-GM, what is your view about the fact that the seeds are made to be self terminating?

ceridwen

Lotus-eater wrote: »

http://eartheasy.com/blog/2009/05/fruits-and-vegetables-yielding-fewer-nutrients-than-in-the-past/ and it's not the only one, there are loads out there.

You're really quite full of it, aren't you? It's very difficult dicussing something with someone, when they fail to understand the basics you are trying to explain. You "misunderstand" the questions, or answers and twist the meaning into something you want to say.
You don't understand what people are trying to say, because you don't understand what they are saying.

....and its usually me that "tells it like it is" at some point when it comes to things like this.....:rotfl::rotfl:

You get the "winners laurel wreath" this time for doing so - whilst I was still raising my eyebrows at the comments and being too tactful to say what I thought......
<removes laurel wreath off own head and hands it over......:rotfl:>

olly300

Gigervamp wrote: »

As you're so pro-GM, what is your view about the fact that the seeds are made to be self terminating?

That is my biggest bugbear about GM.

More traditional gardening techniques to breed plants selectively mean seeds are fertile even if the children from them are going to be different from their parents i.e. F1 strains, the entire point of GM is to stop this.

Meaning not only farmers in the developing world can't save their own seed, you and I can't either. This also means we won't be able to grow fruit and vegetables from seeds saved from shop brought produce. I currently have pepper and chilli plants where the seed has been taken out of shop brought peppers and chillies.

cootambear

Lotus-eater wrote: »

http://eartheasy.com/blog/2009/05/fruits-and-vegetables-yielding-fewer-nutrients-than-in-the-past/ and it's not the only one, there are loads out there.

You're really quite full of it, aren't you? It's very difficult dicussing something with someone, when they fail to understand the basics you are trying to explain. You "misunderstand" the questions, or answers and twist the meaning into something you want to say.
You don't understand what people are trying to say, because you don't understand what they are saying.

You quoted 1 study, this article summarises over 150 articles and 12 studies;

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64N3O920100524

and concludes; Consumers who opt for organic foods often believe they are improving their health, but there is currently no strong evidence that organics bring nutrition-related health benefits, a new research review finds.

I think your personal comments are uncalled for and I wont repond in kind, the debate has not been personal so far.

rhiwfield

As with the debate on climate change, posters will often quote this or that website or study which supports their own belief system. There often appears little effort to open ones mind to alternative viewpoints.

Its notable that virtually all posters have agreed that it is not feasible to be self sufficient like Tom and Barbara. The real disagreement has come where Cootambear has made various posts in favour of GM and oil dependency.

My own belief system is that large corporate interests have manipulated crop production to maximise dependency on their products and reduce the capability of indigenous peoples to be self supporting. Genetically engineered crops have not been subject to the testing that new drugs requires, yet it is at best a highly imperfect process with unknown side effects. And if all seed varieties are subject to corporate patents what option do the individualists have?

I also believe that what can go wrong will go wrong (e.g. Chernobyl, Deepwater Horizon) and that increasing dependency on "big science" can be foolhardy. That is not to say that properly tested and peer reviewed science cannot bring material benefits that we all enjoy.

I am much happier when I see plant breeding using non GE methods and when crops are produced without resort to excessive fertilisers and pesticides. I do see that reliance on big science and vested corporate interests reduces our ability to be self supporting and makes us highly vulnerable to unforseen or disregarded events.

With regard to population it seems clear that you cannot keep adding billions without hugely impacting on the planets ability to sustain life. Evidence abounds that biodiversity is declining and resource depletion is accelerating. It is foolhardy in the extreme not to attempt alternatives to a system which is clearly adversely impacting on the planet.

At a very local level protagonists of limited self sufficiency using methods which have little adverse enviromental impact should be encouraged. And all of us should be seeking to reduce oil dependency. A dependency that is leading to global economic strains and increasing costs and risks in extraction. I dont buy the argument thats its not possible, that sounds like a junkie afraid to face withdrawal symptoms.

mardatha

Absolutely. There's an increasing lack of common sense in the world today (not aiming this at anybody at all on here !) - somebody gets a computer and it tells them this or that , then suddenly that's gospel, That's irreversable and sure to happen. Nobody thinks ! Thinking is too hard work.
People should go back to a mindset where they have to think! Have to find a way round every problem themselves, not sit back and wait for a govt, a website, or anybody else to tell them what to do.Computers are not human - they get things wrong - because they cant think, they havent got life experience to think with !!
More people should get off their a$$es and try things for themselves.

COOLTRIKERCHICK

rhiwfield.... an excellent post.....:T

Tom and Barbara... would have been totally against Gm crops etc...

Last night i was trying to work out some figures... if someone was going to try and do what the Goode's done, exactly what would be the min amount of money they would need have each year...purely to pay the compulsary bills etc...and how much money they would need for the store cupboard essentials, flour, salt, etc..

I baffled myself then and went to bed with my head spinning:rotfl:

might have another go today:eek::rotfl:

COOLTRIKERCHICK

just been browsing on one of the self sufficiency sites/forums and came across this link.

havent read it yet, so thought it might be of interest,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/09/mark-boyle-money

i have also read there was a programme on a while back about someone living without money etc.. will try and find that too

COOLTRIKERCHICK

i think this is the programme they were talking about

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sdbcw

olly300

I saw one program with Peter Owen Jones in it where he hiked and walked to Devon.

He stated one issue that causes a problem today is people's lack of trust towards each other and that half the people helping out wouldn't have helped him if he didn't have a TV camera with him.

He managed to get someone to buy him a rail ticket, a Macdonalds meal and a Indian restaurant worker gave him a free meal.