Federation of Small Business (FSB) - is it worth joining?

nellynerd

My husband has had a small shop selling vintage stuff for a couple of years. It's ticking over OK though it's not making as much money as we need!

So, while he's off figuring out how to make more dosh from the shop generally, I though I'd look at his overheads, starting with his banking. He has a business current account and a card processing facility with HSBC. Overall we're happy with what we've got, but I'm wondering if we can get it cheaper.

I noticed on another thread that the Co-op has an account that's only available through the FSB. It would cost him £150 to join the FSB, but there's not a lot of detail on the FSB site about the banking deals they offer.

So, can anyone tell me:
* has membership of the FSB been worth it overall for you? Do you really get £150 worth of benefits a year?
* what's the FSB co-op business account like? I read elsewhere that their online service was 'flaky'.
* can you speak to a human when needed?
* has anyone used the card processing facility (through RBS WorldPay) and how much were you charged?
* are any of the other membership benefits truly useful? Or are they just handy backups?

Many thanks, MSE-ers.

Horace

The actual fee for joining the FSB is £120 - you pay a joining fee initially bringing it up to £150.

Membership of the FSB gives you access to free legal contracts and oodles of free legal advice.

As a member of the FSB you get free banking for life with the Co-operative Bank (you have to answer questions about ethical stuff), I am just in the process of switching because I don't like being charged for banking. The Co-operative will pay you an annual loyalty bonus of £25, if they make a boob with your account they will pay you £25. You get a free overdraft, free business debit card, free business charge card, free change facility. You pay cash that you have received in at your designated Post Office (you can choose 4 Post Offices) and they send you some free envelops so that you can post your cheques and postal orders to them. They are in the process of setting up a new online banking system and you get free online banking and telephone banking.

I can confirm that you actually speak to a human being both at the FSB and at the Co-op Bank (the Co-ops HQ is in Skelmersdale, Lancs). The Co-op have merchant facilities but I don't much about them because I haven't asked yet.

I have also used my membership and am a member of the FSB's breakdown club and get home start for my car and it costs me £7 a month.

It is definitely worth it in my opinion. When you apply to join they make an appointment for someone to come and visit you to talk through the benefits of FSB membership and you can sign up there and then.

Premier_2

nellynerd wrote: »

...So, can anyone tell me:
* has membership of the FSB been worth it overall for you? Do you really get £150 worth of benefits a year?
* what's the FSB co-op business account like? I read elsewhere that their online service was 'flaky'.
* can you speak to a human when needed?
* has anyone used the card processing facility (through RBS WorldPay) and how much were you charged?
* are any of the other membership benefits truly useful? Or are they just handy backups?

Many thanks, MSE-ers.

We have free business banking through hsbc (direct); not guaranteed for life, but not a limited promotional offer either.

... but we don't use or require card processing facilities.

I have car breakdown, recovery & at home cover for £37 per year
(equivilent to just over £3 a month)

I think there is some type of legal helpline available. We've been in business over 10 years and haven't needed any legal help ... but if we ever did, we have £1200 worth of FSB fees we haven't paid sitting in the bank. Remember, if we were to win a legal claim, we would probably get all our legal fees paid anyway.

If you really want legal costs insurance, I'm sure you could probably buy an insurance for that for a lot less than £120 a year (plus a £30 joining fee).

Jo_F

I have recently joined, the clincher for me was the tax advice. The tax office apparently targets small businesses, and if they decide to audit a member, then all that member has to do is inform the tax office that the FSB will be dealing on their behalf, and then it seems that the tax office go and find someone else to look at.

paulwf

Insurance policies for shops may include a legal helpline and insurance for a tax investigation so check your policy if these features are important.

Well done OP for trying to cut costs though, if you look at standard net profit margins saving £100 on overheads is equivalent to taking an extra £500 through the till. Have you though about approaching Business Link or better still local enterprise agencies for any advice? For example my local enterprise agency has done a deal with a mystery shopping company and they provide a full analysis for small businesses of how the customer perceives them and what their shopping environment is like.

hethmar

We have belonged to the FSB for about 15 years and to be honest, apart from getting a magazine now and then, its not something we even notice. I MUST cancel the DD sub to them though! Whilst they say about the tax investigation thingy, when I spoke to them they said you cant use your own accountant, you have to use theirs - which at a distance may prove a real pain. I think it may sound a lot better than it would be in practice.

Im afraid JoF, that doesnt actually happen! We had an investigation, told IR that we had FSB - I rang FSB they made it sound all so difficult that we had our local accountant deal with it. At no point did the IR just go away and find someone else to pursue Im afraid To be honest, the IR would probably prefer that a business had someone indpendently dealing with the investigation, it would be a lot easier for them.

Pennywise

As a practising chartered accountant, I'd like to add my thoughts on the tax enquiry insurance provided by the FSB.

Actually, I recommend my small businesses clients join the FSB for the tax enquiry insurance alone - if they derive any other benefits, then that's an added bonus.

I can get tax enquiry insurance for my clients through specialist insurers, but I'd have to charge my clients more than the FSB fee for providing it.

When an uninsured client becomes the subject of an enquiry, it costs them A LOT of money in accountancy fees. Remember that some enquiries are purely random. An enquiry can eat hours of time. The client is left to face the accountancy fees even if they are found to be completely innocent.

I've had several clients who've been investigated and who've had the FSB insurance. Both they and I have been happy with the way the FSB accountants have dealt with the enquiries. Basically, they ask me for the relevant info from my files which takes me an hour or so to copy and send to them. Occasionally, they may phone me to settle a query or for a brief discussion, but basically, I never hear from them again. So, that's just an hour of my time charged to the client. Sometimes they want a meeting with the client, sometimes not, sometimes a phone call is adequate. Usually, they want the clients' "books" couriered to them, which in turn have to be couriered to the tax inspector. In EVERY case, the enquiry has been closed by the tax inspector within a reasonable timescale - a few months is common - with no, or little additional tax due. Never once has the client come back afterwards and said they weren't happy with the outcome. In fact, one client was more concerned that the FSB accountant wasn't doing anything as they'd not heard from him for a couple of months - a quick phone call from me discovered that during that time, he'd met the tax inspector, there'd been several exchanges of correspondence, and the enquiry was about to be closed down - the FSB accountant had simply been quietly beavering away in the background and hadn't need to pester the client constantly.

Contrast that to a client who didn't want to spend the money on FSB membership and was investigated. He was found innocent (after 3 years of too-ing and fro-ing) and it cost him almost £10,000 in my fees, a tax specialists fee and also a tax barristers fee - all to prove that I was right and the tax inspector was wrong on a technical point. If he'd had FSB membership, he'd have paid barely anything.

At the end of the day, I actually prefer not to have to deal with my clients' tax enquiries. I've found they disturb my relationship with the client, not least the amount of fees I have to charge for the time which the client feels they're seeing no benefit (as they're innocent anyway), and also the intrusion as I have to play devil's advocate in digging away at their personal finances, lifestyles, etc., to help prove their innocence. Even good outcomes, such as no tax due and quick closures, often result in a lost client as I'm often blamed even though I'm the one who's saved them from the taxman.

Whilst I appreciate that not having your own accoutant and having to deal with an FSB accountant miles away may sound like a problem, I've not found that to be the case. After all, the FSB accountants do that all day, every day, as part of their job, and are fully accustomed to the best ways of dealing remotely with clients and their existing accountants. As I've said, I recommend my clients join the FSB and warn them that if they don't have some form of tax enquiry insurance, they face time, fees, and hassle of tax enquiries - for me, for £100-£200 p.a. it's a no brainer!

Alison_B

I joined the FSB in January. My son's car insurance was due up in February and as he was a newish driver, I got a quote from the FSB insurance company and they saved me much more than my yearly fee. I also took advantage of the free banking via Co-Operative Bank. Up to now, that is all that I have used but I feel safe in the knowledge that I have help from their people should I ever need it. Just wished that I had took membership years ago when I first started out.

hethmar

I checked out all the advertised benefits such as breakdown cover, insurance, broadband and so on and found I could easily get better deals just by a bit of googling.

WHA

The FSB membership saved me a lot of money re legal fees. I used their online specimen employment forms (employment contract, policies, etc) when I took on my first employee. Later on, when he turned out to be useless, I used their legal helplines several times to make sure that I followed the proper procedure to sack him, i.e. going through the verbal and written warnings, procedural rules, etc. He then tried to take me to the employment tribunal and again, I used the legal helpline to defend myself - luckily, my paper-trail was absolutely spot-on and the guy didn't get anywhere with the employment tribunal. I'd have spent hundreds, if not thousands, on solicitors if I hadn't had the legal helpline. Money well spent for peace of mind.

nellynerd

Thank you very much to all of you for your very helpful replies. I'm going to give them a bell today and see what they say.

I'd still like to hear any other comments about FSB membership. I've not found any 'reviews' of their services elsewhere.