Public sector pensions - cpi instead of rpi



  • real1314
    real1314 Forumite Posts: 4,432 Forumite
    Oh and just to throw some facts into the "public sector pay rose faster than private" myth.

    Most of the lowest level civil service jobs (which had to have pay rises when the minimum wage came in they were that low) have gone.

    So by taking out all those that earn under £15k pa (thousands of them) doing basic admin work, you increase the average public sector pay level without actually giving anyone a pay rise at all.
  • GunJack
    GunJack Forumite Posts: 11,647
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    My tuppenceworth...

    I'm an ex-civil servant with 19 yrs preserved pension when I resigned to "go private" in 2007. My contract said preserved pension rises by RPI until taken at 60. So now the govt is going to alter my contract AFTER I've left ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? No way on earth can this be lawful.

    Oh, and an interesting statistic on the news earlier.......the UK govt has agreed an aid package of £680 Million p.a. with India. India spends £630 Million p.a. on it's.....

    ...wait for it....

    SPACE PROGRAM !!!!!!!, we're giving them cash to fund their space program AND have a few mil left over, whilst our ConDem-ed government cuts all and sundry in this country, including hard-earned pensions for it's crown servants....IT STINKS.
    ......Gettin' There, Wherever There is......

    I have a dodgy "i" key, so ignore spelling errors due to "i" issues, ...I blame Apple :D
    TREVORCOLMAN Forumite Posts: 1,001 Forumite
    What the £4000 'average' doesn't tell you is the average length of service required to accrue this it's around 14 years....the lump sum payment and the fact that many pensions are payable from age of 60.

    Anyone with 40 years service will receive a considerably higher amount.The figure is also distorted by the many part timers who only accrue part of a pension for each year worked.

    For someone not benefiting from a 'gold plated' pension worth £4k pa - to receive this amoun they would have to have built up a pension fund of around £100,000. Using the same 14 year employment period that's equivalent to making pension contributions of around £6000pa (or around 25% of their annual salary).

    Have wifes pension forecast in front of me now:

    22 years 101 days = Pension of £3,196 - off to get some gold plated items!
    I am NOT a mortgage & insurance adviser - or anything to do with finance, that was put on by the new system I dont know why?!
  • Wannabedebtfree
    Wannabedebtfree Forumite Posts: 118
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    I will put my two pennies worth in here for what it's worth.

    I have been a public sector worker for over 21 years, my last pension forecast for retirement at the age of 60 (with over 40 years service) was £10627 along with a lump sum (because I refused to change from the original pension scheme to the new one they were pushing around 2002/2003).

    I can't and won't complain too much because it was my choice to join the service, and as I made my bed I've got to lay in it.

    The main difference is apart from working Monday to Friday as a public sector worker, I also look after my elderly parents who I have living with me, and then have to have to do a part time job on top of all that just to bring me up to the "average" wage. I’m actually considering a third job if I can, and all this is so that I can pay the bills and to put something to one side so I don't have to be a bigger burden on us poor taxpayers if and when I retire than what everyone seems to think that I and my colleagues are at the moment......

    Sorry rant over.....
    In spite of the cost of living, it’s still popular :eek:
  • Old_Slaphead
    Old_Slaphead Forumite Posts: 2,745
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 6 July 2010 at 9:58AM
    real1314 wrote: »
    When did you start your pension plan, and how much was your salary during your career?

    It's funny that you choose £10k as a figure, which is about double the average public sector pension.

    To feel hard done to in comparison to the public sector, and feel that your pension has been devalued, what were you on as a wage? £40k?

    FWIW my salary is around £27k and I've been saving for a pension for 22 years. I've been contributing between 15-25%pa of my salary (depending on other commitments) which at 60 might give a pension of £5000ish. That's less than a public sector worker gets for paying in at 5%pa

    The £10,000 you quote me as saying is taken out of context as it refers to another poster's quote - the average, as I said earlier on in my posting, was alledged to be £4,000 (though that average includes part-timers and staff working somewhat less than a full 40 years)!!!!

    Quoting £4000 average is misleading - it can relate to someone on a low salary working part time for 40 years OR someone on a very high salary working just just 2 years! You have to qualify the average by saying the FTE years earning it relates to to see how equitable it is.
  • Old_Slaphead
    Old_Slaphead Forumite Posts: 2,745
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 6 July 2010 at 11:12AM
    Have wifes pension forecast in front of me now:

    22 years 101 days = Pension of £3,196 - off to get some gold plated items!

    Most odd - my partner's got 21 years and her's is £6500 (plus £20k lump sum) - I'd get your's double checked.
    Just off to get our gold-plated things platinum plated.:)

    nb someone on an average PS salary would have accrued around £7000 pension after 22 years.

    Anyway the numbers are fairly irrelevant - the premise of "gold-plated" refers to the fact that someone pays in at 6% of salary over 40 years then takes out at between 50-67% for 25 years. This costs an absolute fortune - ie over £300,000 per average full time position......and there are 6 million of them.
  • Andy_L
    Andy_L Forumite Posts: 12,615
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    ipri wrote: »
    Hi....Just what are the chances of exixsting pensioners having their monthly pension cut ? ( NHS not state pension ) And would it be legal ?

    It would be legal as, ultimatly, the gov can "change the law to let them break the law" IYSWIM, in the same way as they propose to change the law covering the Civil Services redundancy terms after being prevented from unilaterally changing them by the courts
    TMFTP Forumite Posts: 195 Forumite
    cvd wrote: »
    You are completely missing the point I am making.

    I know someone in the ICI pension scheme. The company no longer exists. This is a final salary scheme indexed by RPI. It is not changing and cannot change.

    However, the government is proposing to change the rules for public sector pensioners who have already retired.

    I'm not missing your point, I'm saying it's irrelevant. The public sector ignored the series of degradations in conditions which eventually ended with the vast majority of private sector Final Salary schemes being closed due to underfunding - or the risk of underfunding.

    The private sector have taken a similar level of reduction in expected future benefits - just in the past. Your reductions will come in the future. We're all feeling the pinch, chief.

    And I AM a member of one of the public sector schemes that will be affected. Double whammy, or just lucky that way?
  • paparossco
    paparossco Forumite Posts: 293
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Sad. It 'seems that two wrongs make a right' to some and they look forward with glee to an inevitable erosion of Public Sector pensions. I understand the gut reaction in the private sector to feel that they have had to suffer, so why not the Public Sector, but the Public Sector did not cause your schemes to go - you would need to ask your shareholders about that.

    I joined the NHS over thirty three years ago as a vocation, to serve the public, not on the basis of what the salary was. Some of you may scoff but I believe that this is still common in our service. I would be grateful if you could stop 'venting your spleen' at us, if you want to target someone go for the people that caused this crisis. We know what is heading our way but you don't need to be so pleased about it.
    The highest form of ignorance is when you reject something you don't know anything about.
    Wayne Dyer
    TMFTP Forumite Posts: 195 Forumite
    I take no joy in the fact that Public sector pensions are being devalued. As say - I have one.

    And it IS the government's fault that a majority of Private sector Final Salary schemes became unfundable. In the same way as they're now going to have to change regulations to allow them to cut public sector benefits, they changed regulations to allow them, for instance, to tax dividend payments to pension schemes.

    I find myself in a position similar to "Cyclists v car drivers" arguments. As I have a foot in both camps.

    The concept of losing value from this type of benefit is new to the Public sector, and those of you who work there are in the same position and saying the same things lots of Private sector workers have been saying for years.

    Unfortunately, it's a logical conclusion in the economic climate. The time to "take a unitedd stand" is years gone - and wouldn't have been recognisable to the masses anyway.
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