Public sector pensions - cpi instead of rpi

patchwork_cat

Unfortunately too many of you are seeing the headline big boss figures and not thinking of 99% of the workers who are paid nothing like the mega bucks that attract the publicity.

Imagine modern life without public servants - no roads gritted, infact no roads! no schools, no libraries, no benefits, no bins emptied, no crematoriums. So we have uneducated people, living with no roads in a mire of rubbish, buried 10 deep if they are lucky - in fact isn't that the 18th century! Fine you go back there, I'm not. I haven't even started on the hospitals, police, fire, courts, prisons .....

Old_Slaphead

patchwork_cat wrote: »

You are neglecting the fact that since 2007 local government employees have received a lot less than 9% and they will have a 3 year pay freeze. I can only comment on local government salaries and pension schemes, but the pay is less than the equivalent job in the private sector and the pension is by no means 'gold' plated whatever on earth that means.

Can you provide 'across the board' evidence of this and not perhaps pick out 1 example to support your case. Pay may be higher in some cases but there aren't that many private sector jobs out there so they are very difficult to get (even if advertised salaries look better). Also bearing in mind that LA staff get generous holidays, an effective 20+% employer pension contribution and, up until recently, had more job security.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that 'public servants' are overpaid but that the pension is overly generous for the times and, given increased longevity, a completely unaffordable cost burden for future generations.

nb #32 para 2 - imagine life without the private sector - no food, no houses, no cars, no telly, no books etc etc. We all contribute.

novice-saver

In the context of hospitals, this was written:

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Also there has (allegedly) been a huge increase in well paid management jobs.

This experiment will put the dog amongst the fat cats.

Also interesting is this article . My take on it is, provide method for two sets of extreme cuts - the lower set if the unions agree to the pension changes (whatever form they take), with the higher set as the threat of what will happen if they don't agree.

joem1619

When I retired from full time work I got a part time job in a Hospital.
This 'experiment' as it is called is really a reaction to a new reality.
The last Government micro managed the NHS . The target cuture required an abundance of middle manager number crunchers because the old NHS did'nt have a clue how it spent the money. In my experience Medical staff had no performance management skills and many were part of the problem;e,g resisting lengthening operating theatre hours,excessive sickness absence, -playing the 'qualified staff only' argument whenever improvements in process were aired.
The Coalition have correctly now focused on quality of care rather than endless cost centre analysis. Those number crunchers are superfluos but clinical staff still make bad managers.......
The NHS should be cut but start with the Dept of Health,the Regional Health Authorities and especially the PCT's who are merely draining money away from patient care..Sermon ended.

patchwork_cat

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Can you provide 'across the board' evidence of this and not perhaps pick out 1 example to support your case. Pay may be higher in some cases but there aren't that many private sector jobs out there so they are very difficult to get (even if advertised salaries look better). Also bearing in mind that LA staff get generous holidays, an effective 20+% employer pension contribution and, up until recently, had more job security.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that 'public servants' are overpaid but that the pension is overly generous for the times and, given increased longevity, a completely unaffordable cost burden for future generations.

nb #32 para 2 - imagine life without the private sector - no food, no houses, no cars, no telly, no books etc etc. We all contribute.

Well obviously as you well know it would involve far more work than I am prepared to put in to demonstrate equivalent private sector jobs, even if there are any, which there aren't. A scale 2 clerk probably does get paid better than in the private sector and those are the ones that everyone always says need more pay. At higher levels for so many jobs there just isn't an equivalent and I would be interested to know for example your opinion on the salary of someone in the private sector with a £1m budget responsibilty, as that was my job.

As you are also no doubt aware, by looking at my old posts, I have in another section pointed out one person in particular where private sector pay would be in the order of 100% more with excellent conditions of service and benefits. I am currently trying to convince said person ( my DH) to stop being a philanthropist, but to become money grabbing like lots of others.

datostar

What a sterile discussion. How do those attacking public sector workers think that will help their own positions and those of private sector workers in general, especially vis a vis pensions?
I'm not a great fan of Trades Unions, but leaving the politics out of it, it's long been a principle of theirs that you don't improve the lot of your own members by attacking the pay and conditions of other workers (not the fat cats!) and trying to drag them down. By all means use them as comparators but if all you manage to do is harm another group of workers, you haven't really achieved anything for your own, have you?

patchwork_cat

datostar wrote: »

What a sterile discussion. How do those attacking public sector workers think that will help their own positions and those of private sector workers in general, especially vis a vis pensions?
I'm not a great fan of Trades Unions, but leaving the politics out of it, it's long been a principle of theirs that you don't improve the lot of your own members by attacking the pay and conditions of other workers (not the fat cats!) and trying to drag them down. By all means use them as comparators but if all you manage to do is harm another group of workers, you haven't really achieved anything for your own, have you?

Hear, hear. Agree with this and the other poster that said divide and conquer - which we all know is a managerial technique. Well stop being sheep and going along the nicely laid out route by the polictians, but ask - hey wait a minute what about the workers, private and public we are all in the same boat and should unite (pun intended!)only not under under Unite as they are useless.

The public sector is the only division of the country the govt. can control, but they are setting a precedent that private sector managers will no doubt choose to follow.

patchwork_cat

Plumbers - for example - ask yourself next time you do a job who employs/employed the people you are working for? If you work for a contractor what job will the people who buy the house do? If the answer is the expected 20% work in the public sector, then are you prepared to see a 20% drop in work, because that is what will happen if you continue to knock public sector employees.

novice-saver

patchwork_cat wrote: »

Hear, hear. Agree with this and the other poster that said divide and conquer - which we all know is a managerial technique. Well stop being sheep and going along the nicely laid out route by the polictians....

The problem is that a lot of private sector people have been put through the mangle this last couple of years - plenty of redundancies, short hours working (and short pay to go with it in the UK, unlike Germany), pay frozen, and the continuing withdrawal of DB pensions too.

To those in the private sector looking over the fence at the public sector (and maybe not fully informed of where the truth is) it really does look a bit too good to continue, so Dave is making the most of the public mood - and stoking it up a bit too, with some scare mongering just to keep the momentum going.

It's been a long time coming, according to the papers I read, and Gordon and his tribe didn't have the testicles to even broach the subject - for fear of not being re-elected.

afc80

there seems to be a myth going on here that public sector employees are receiving higher wages than private sector employees. I cant speak for where you live but in Aberdeen wages in the private sector far outpace public sector wages. A receptionist in an oil company can be on £26,00 pa, a middle manager at Aberdeen City Council would be on that wage. I also know of a purchase ledger clerk in Aberdeen who is on £42,000 pa.

As for pensions, public servants are on very low wages, get very little thanks for the job they do and get no perks. My friend has been to the British open 4 times, the Belgian Grand Prix in the pit lane and to numerous Scotland games, all freebies, he also receives a 10% bonus in june and december, that is 10% of his annual salary. Aberdeen may be unique, i dont know? but a public sector job in this part of the world is hardly a gravy train.