Public sector pensions - cpi instead of rpi 24 June 2010 at 6:44PM in Pensions, annuities & retirement planning 113 replies 29.7K views

darich

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Figures from the ONS show that average public sector pay is now around £25000pa - higher than average private sector pay and reversing the position of 10 years ago. Many 'front line' staff ie teachers, police, nurses are on more than the national average pay.

Many public sector workers have benefited from a 3 year paydeal from 2007 while private sector employees have 'benefited' from pay cuts, pay freezes and P45s

But you said many had received higher payrises than those in private sector. Averages can easily be skewed by a few figures that are extremely high or extremely low.

I'm not disputing that the average may have changed but this can be easily achieved by a number of things while still giving low payrises eg changing 2 job share staff to one full time. That would result in a higher average but doesn't mean a higher than average payrise.

The higher average salary doesn't prove a higher than average payrise.

cvd

RPI includes mortgage and housing costs which, in general, do not affect pensioers as much.

If that is the reason then they should use the Rossi index. The CPI includes University accommodation costs, cost of fees to overseas University students, foreign exchange commission for purchases of sterling - all these are not in the RPI.

But that was not the reason they chose the CPI - the reason was "which is the lowest possible inflation index we can find?"

Old_Slaphead

darich wrote: »

But you said many had received higher payrises than those in private sector. Averages can easily be skewed by a few figures that are extremely high or extremely low.

Did I say that many had received higher rises than those in the private sector ?

I don't think so (even though I believe that's been the case - certainly for the last few years).

I oiginally said
"Generous public sector pensions have always been justified as a acknowledgement that certain public servants receive relatively low pay. Given the pay rises that many have had in the past 10 years that is now no longer the case for the majority"


The premise that FS pensions as a reward for years of low public service pay no longer rings true for the many public servants.

Old_Slaphead

cvd wrote: »

If that is the reason then they should use the Rossi index. The CPI includes University accommodation costs, cost of fees to overseas University students, foreign exchange commission for purchases of sterling - all these are not in the RPI.

But that was not the reason they chose the CPI - the reason was "which is the lowest possible inflation index we can find?"

That's not always the case.

Maybe in future they'll adopt the BBC model

KMK

I was concerned about this change in index linking, which looks like a significant downgrade to my pension, into which I paid for 38 years. I contacted my MP who just happens to be a newly elected Lib Dem in what used to be a Labour constituency, to voice my concern and to get his reaction.

Before the election, we must have had about three letters a week from him (and Clegg) asking for our vote. Now there is a deafening silence when I asked him for a response to the CPI proposal. Can't even be bothered to reply. It's a done deal with no consultation or redress.

darich

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

Did I say that many had received higher rises than those in the private sector ?

I don't think so (even though I believe that's been the case - certainly for the last few years).

I oiginally said
"Generous public sector pensions have always been justified as a acknowledgement that certain public servants receive relatively low pay. Given the pay rises that many have had in the past 10 years that is now no longer the case for the majority"


The premise that FS pensions as a reward for years of low public service pay no longer rings true for the many public servants.

ok.....if you think that it is no longer the majority that public sector employees receive relatively low pay, where they previously did, how do you think the pay has increased?
You've since stated that you do believe that many public sector employees have received higher than average increases (despite arguing my post)....but you still provide no evidence of this.

As I previously posted, an increased average doesn't necessarily mean a higher than average payrise. A decrease in staff at the lower end can achieve this.

roysterer

PUBLIC SECTOR GRAVY TRAIN
R.I.P.

It won't be long now, you will soon be entering the real world like the private sector already has!!!!!!
The taxpayer can no longer support the Public Sector Final Salary Pension Scheme with early retirement at 55.
Many people have complained to there MPs stating their concerns about the Public Sector waste of money. You will find that there is very little support for Public Sector Workers (with the exception of Nurses). Yea if you reakon you can earn higher salaries in the Private Sector you will soon have your chance!!!!!!!! I think you are in for a shock.
You certainly are not going to get a Final Salary Scheme pension with a 6% contribution.(you wont get a FS Pension with a 15% contribution).
Also you will not get your yearly grade rise once a year for long service.
Not forgetting the 60 days a year sick pay through stress.
Theres a big tough world out there and its not particularly very nice. You would be shocked if you knew how badly many employees are treated in the private sector.

Old_Slaphead

darich wrote: »

ok.....if you think that it is no longer the majority that public sector employees receive relatively low pay, where they previously did, how do you think the pay has increased?

Because many of the lower grade jobs have been outsourced leaving higher paid staff - again the reason for generous pensions was to mitigate low pay. Some sectors ie nurses have received significant pay increases. Also there has (allegedly) been a huge increase in well paid management jobs.

You've since stated that you do believe that many public sector employees have received higher than average increases (despite arguing my post)....but you still provide no evidence of this.

My comment was quite clearly an opinion not necessarily a statement of fact, as it would be difficult to categorically prove. Some very large groups of the public sector have received significant pay increases over the last 3 years ie teachers, police, nurses totalling around 9% - that's much higher than the average for the private sector. Many areas have received below inflation payrises but that compares with pay cuts, pay freezes and job cuts in the private sector (as has been well documented in the press and ONS statistics)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1164342/Public-sector-pay-goes-private-workers-suffer.html

joem1619

Roysterer...What an an ignorant and bitter person you are. I worked for 40 years ,I've been threatened with a gun,and more threats of violence than I care to remember . I've had to move house because some lowlife discovered where I lived and always had to be ex directory. I had to go to work wearing a stab vest. Surprise ,surprise no I was not a Police Officer I worked for a Local Authority . So shut your mealy mouthed trap and get back to your Daily Wail crossword.

patchwork_cat

You are neglecting the fact that since 2007 local government employees have received a lot less than 9% and they will have a 3 year pay freeze. I can only comment on local government salaries and pension schemes, but the pay is less than the equivalent job in the private sector and the pension is by no means 'gold' plated whatever on earth that means.

Why do nurse have your support and not other vital members of the public sector. You see what a nurse does as they are front line, but you don't think about the myriad of others that keep the infrastructure going behind the scenes.

As the above poster says the abuse suffered by public servants is intolerable. I too was very glad I didn't live in the area in which I worked and whilst I have never been stabbed I have had colleagues threatened and have been very afraid at times.

I do think it is very short sighted of private sector employees to not realise how much they depend on the public sector pound, in retirement or employment.

If the grass with regards to pensions is so much greener then why don't you/didn't you work for the public sector and why can our local authority not recruit to some vital roles.