Paypal Limitation Fiasco

stefone

Hi

I need some advice

Runnign a sole trader business on eBay, we have been running it since April this year and so far turned over £9000.

As sales and rep increasing so is turnover to roughly about £400 a day or it was.

Just to confirm, paypal account fully verified business account. All information submitted including HMRC, Tax, VAT details etc.

2 Weeks ago paypal added a limitation to the account and stated a comment to the likely of
"due to unusual acitibyt and high potential risk we have had to limit access to your account"

I have queried exactly what this relates to but never once given an actual answer. Only we can and we do this to people to check things out, its not personal its just something we do.

Fair enough, whatever. So they asked for a list of information to verify things.

Information requetsed were verification of name and adress of account holder, submitted driving license, utility bills and all refused intially because not in account holders name, the business is ran from its own offices. All bills in company name i.e cause its a business and paypal account is also a business account.

So sorted that and still had to submit persoanl information but they eventually accepted it even though they already had copies of HMRC data we sent.

Secondly they now start to ask for invoices of all the items for sale and that have been sold. It took a couple of days but this was all submitted to them electronically, nothing heard and 2 days later, now 4 days since limitation added they came back and said not sufficient. We need proof of ownership of items (all had been sold) and also proof of sufficient inventory, no inventory as sold all stock.

So on th ephone agian and eventually they accept was submitted and then stated account will now be reviewed. Good should be back up and running.

Oh know, now it starts to get tedious. They now start asking for further invoices of all goods sold from day 1. Fine you can have them so we send over all invoices, receipts, Purchase Orders, Sales ORders, VAT Invoices, Supplier Credit Agreements etc, in the end it was almost the entire paperwork colleciton of the business. They recieved it and low and behold we cant accept it and need more information.

This is the fun part and I am sure not legal

As its a business account and we have 5 employees 3 of these were added to the business paypal aco!!!! as additional users each set there own specific authorisation. Paypal have then asdked for proof of identity of each of these, including the foolowing either Driving License, Passport, Residential Order and some of the following Bank Statement showing full name as per paypal, utlity bill etc.

This to me is highly unethical and they ar emy employees and as such do not have any right even to me to submit and show this information.

While all this is going on I have sent over 10 email letters, one a day each different with extra iunformation accruing daily and each time reciev ethe same pooh back from them.

We are still reviewing your aco!!!! limitation and until this review is concluded your account will remain locked.

We have impecible feedback on eBay and sales are that high we made top rated and power seller on our last account update, all within 2 full calender months.

But tomake it worse and what is really distressing is due to limitation we cant send or request payments. We like any other business have returns and refunds that need ot be made but cannot do this. Becuase of this our customers have had no option but sent in disputes to eBay and as such we are now going to lose our current high ranking status and our 100% feedback has deteroated rapidly.

Ebay have also imposed for last 2 weeks since limitation added to paypal a restriction that we cant list items. Because of this I am now losing almost 400 pounds a day in sales, my suppliers wont be able to get paid becuase my funds are locked and cant withdraw form paypal, HMRC Tax Man is due his VAT money end of this month but as all funds are tied in Paypal we cannot access this.

At this moment in time I am now getting into serious debt and within the next 2 weeks will have gone over my 30 credit terms and will start accruing interest from my creditors.

I am at a loss on what to do, I spoke to FOS who couldnt help much as unfortunately Paypal are a voluntary organisation and so cannot be imposed as rationally as others.

Does anyone has any ideas or can point me in the right direction.

Currently they have almost £10000 of my money, no withdrawals can be made, cant list on ebay so cant sell, have staff to pay, VAT due, creditors and suppliers due.

My rep on eBay has been deminished because of this and I dont knwo what to do

My business was running fine up until I decided a few months ago to sell on eBay now it is going to ruin it and people I care about that work for me will end up losing their jobs

I know it long winded but I needed to get all the information in I could think of to help

Thanks :mad:

theonlywayisup

I'm afraid it is not the only such instance I have heard of.

Not knowing their logic, it sounds very much as if it is to do with your employees being on the account. I run a business and do not allow anyone access to PP, in fact I didn't know you could add employees, but despite trusting them implicitly would not add anyone onto it. I appreciate you feel this information request is inappropriate, but if you were to add them to your bank account, your bank would require similar. So to a certain extent I can see their reasons for the request.

Unfortunately with PP once the spiral starts it is almost impossible to get out of it, as you have found. I would firstly get the other people removed from the account, that should rectify that. However, as it appears there are now other limits being imposed (non listing) then you will have to address those problems individually and ascertain what info/hoops you need to give/jump through.

If you want to use PP, there is no way you can bypass their methods. They are drachonian at best, but with the odd exception, you must supply absolutely what they want. They do have the 'right' and I use that term loosely, to retain your funds for 180 days.

UnderPressure

They are trul a nightmare company to try and work with on any level, a really law utno themselves, how they get away with all of this in the UK is far beond me but they do

If you want to continue to trade with paypal then as has been said sadly you need to jump through all the hoops they want and provide all the information they want you to at least until they lift the restriction on funds then withdraw your money and get out of there!!!

Have a look at someone like Worldpay (when all this is sorted that is) you are allowed to use "real" merchant accoutn processors on Ebay you do have to provide Ebay with some detials and proof though but once that is done you can invoice your customers yourself and "hope" most of them will opt for the merchant account route rather than paypal.

You would do yourself some favours if you had a real business website where you also sold your goods and used someone like worldpay to process payments, you could link al of this back to your paypal account so they could see you are a bonified business, also whenever someone bought something off you on ebay you could enclose a nice leaflet directing them to your website and offering maybe a 10% discount on future order placed through your website, it is a good way of guiding people away from ebay to your own site.

There are businesses using paypal quite successfully, the only way this happen is over time, because your account is quite new and you have processed an awful lot they dont see this as welcome business they see it as possible fraud and do everything they can to protect themselves from any future chargebacks, success is not neccessarily a good thing with paypal especially quick success.

You are in a dilema, contact ebay and explain the situation to them, supply paypal with everything they want then hound them to death on the telephone, their telephone reps are robotic reading from a script most of the time ask to speak to a manager and explain this is having a major effect on your new business and you need it resolving quickly, it will only be resolved if you offer the info they want though

I hate paypal with a passion, sadly because of the major brainwashing that ebay has done to its users they are a necessary evil for trading on ebay unfortunately there really is no way around this there are a high proportion of buyers that simply will not pay any other way so whatever happens you have to use them to a certain extent, but offering "other" payment processors at the same time in the hope of reducing the amount of money going through your paypal account is no bad thing.

I do not trade on EBay at all anymore, told them where to shove my powerseller account some time ago and as far as I am concerned it caused me some headaches to begin with but now it was the best thing I ever did, tread carefully if all else fails and they dont like your business model and you get the "we want to part company" email then go to a solicitor and start legals against them, they do tend to fold at the last minute before a court case and hand back your money I know believe me

Anyhow best of luck, I know how you are feeling the same thing happened to me not once though 3 times over 4 years all because my business was growing and becoming more successful, you try your best to make something work and then paypal seem to do everything they can to spoil it it is heartbreaking I know, only you can make the choice from here

cyberbob

stefone wrote: »

As its a business account and we have 5 employees 3 of these were added to the business paypal aco!!!! as additional users each set there own specific authorisation. Paypal have then asdked for proof of identity of each of these, including the foolowing either Driving License, Passport, Residential Order and some of the following Bank Statement showing full name as per paypal, utlity bill etc.

This to me is highly unethical and they ar emy employees and as such do not have any right even to me to submit and show this information.

Why is it unethical for a financial company to want to know details of those that have access. If you gave someone access to a bank account you would have to verify identities. This is no different.

As much as this is a pain i'm sure if there was a fraud going on and they managed to stop it you would be singing their praises. Yes it's a PIA but if you wish to use their services you need to provide the information.

UnderPressure

cyberbob wrote: »

Why is it unethical for a financial company to want to know details of those that have access. If you gave someone access to a bank account you would have to verify identities. This is no different.

As much as this is a pain i'm sure if there was a fraud going on and they managed to stop it you would be singing their praises. Yes it's a PIA but if you wish to use their services you need to provide the information.

Although I agree with you completely cyberbob I can also see the Op's point of view, sometimes paypal really are a law unto themselves and have now put the op in a tricky situation where he now has to go to his employees and askt them for relevant proof, some employees quite rightly may tell him to go swivel and "well if that is the case then take me off the paypal account" but where does this leave the op?

Paypal will no doubt then think something fishy is going on, at the least they should ahve made the op aware of this id necessity at the time he was adding the emplyees to the paypal account, he could of then made an informed choice as to wether or not he was going to do this.

As I have said already paypal can be an absolute nightmare, this is mainly because where ebay is concerned they have zero competition ebay have seen to that, they can behave in whatever way they wish and get away with it, that is not the way business is done in the UK it may be all well and good to behave that way in the states but in the UK we have laws and regulations that protect businesses from such shoddy practices, problems is paypal only adhere to them when challenged.

I would love to see paypal closed down in the UK once and for all I really would, it would be no big deal to ebay they would then simply roll over and accept other payment methods as the norm, there are numerous forums out there as well as this one full of disgruntled paypal members, fair enough "soemtimes" their limitation etc are well deserved but a lot of the time they are not.

SUch as the 21day hold rubbish on payments for new sellers, do you really think this is to protect ebay members? to protect buyers from fraudulent sellers? to make ebay a safer place? please how much extra do you think paypal make in interest within those 21 days, everything paypal do revelves around them making money in some way nothing to do with prtecting joe bloggs and making ebay a safe place.

If as the op says they are holding onto 10k of his money to a small business this is a disaster so I can fully understand where the op is coming from, they could quite easily destroy his business and reputation as well as the lives of his 5 employees overnight this surely cannot be allowed to happen? It does though far to often................................

stefone

Hi all

thanks for your posts so far

Not having any luck. Spoke to them, waste of time and money in call charges. Have taken off other additional users but still nothing.

They have asked for even more information. Some of this in no way resembles anything relating to the details on ths account.

Now not too sure what to do.

Each and everytime I always get the same email, please supply this information and once received will will reinstate your account.

But then information sent and then oh they want more and more.

What I find amusing is if I want information they hold about me I have to pay for the priviledge but I have spent all in all 5 hours scanning items and emailing, not to mention my own loss of earnings trying to rectify this as this has its won people running it as Ii have my own endless amounts of projects with end dates loomng rapidly.

What further action can I take, in regards to detrimental affect on business, loss of earnings, my reputation slowly being eaten away by this. Is there a legal route and who would you approach

stefone

well well another email back today from the ever so helpful Paypal Account Review team.

Still no answer to my original question in what is the unusual activity between my Paypal and eBay account that poses a POTENTIAL high risk.

Same old, they are currently not able to accept any of my suppliers invoices. Note - these invoices comply with HMRC VAT set standrd invoices so bsically there is nothing amiss on any of them.

They have had over 100 invoices which accounts for 75% of items sold oin ebay over last 6o+days and they wont accept them.

They basically sent me another email which was identicl to the letter from the previous one asking for more information.

Each one is the same, we are sorry but we cannnot accept the documents sent p[leas send all invoices etc relating to blah blah blah via either fax or electronic upload within account.

Ii guess I can kiss good bye to my money, I can see this dragging along and me receiving these emails, the same context and wording for ever.

If there was ever a moment I could commit murder it would be now. But guess theres jolly times ahead come end of month when I run my VAT quearter and have to find the £2500 to cover the current VAT bill.

But to all out there dont w=venture into your own business work for someone and earn a wage it is safer. Setup on my own with partner 1 year ago, turned over £75000K come end of financial year this month, used £30000 setting up retail business to see it all float down the toilet becuase of limitations and basically being screwed up the !!!

Story for all to basically say Paypal, would I recommend you and your brother eBay, would I pooh

lindseykim13

I'm confused what do they actually want from you? Can you try ringing them and asking that specific question and nothing else. If you keep it that simple the dimwits might be able to give you a straight answer. I'd ring and say 'what do you need me to send?' then send it straight after. Then i'd be straight back on the phone telling them 'i've sent it, anything else you need?' be extreemly pleasant and try and get a direct no. so your dealing with the same person each time i would have thought it's down to one of the cust services people to re-activate your acc so do some serious but licking is all i can sugest.

UnderPressure

These people at paypal really are fools! OK so they do deal with may many fraudsters on a daily basis but when innocent people get caught up in their pathetic silly little games as we can see from this post it quickly turns into a disaster!

OP you could try ringing and hoping someone with a brain picks up the phone unlikely though, paypal seem to emply robots that can do nothing but read from preconfigured scripts I fear you may be wasting more valuable time.

If you have supplied them with everything they have asked for then I would be off now to see a solicitor that specialises in this sort of thing, paypal have a seperate legal department that get involved quickly when they realise they may have to answer to a possible court case, this is not a guarantee you are going to get what you want, it is however a guarantee to move things on good or bad so you will either get the problem sorted and your money released or you know you are going to be heading to court.

Seel some professional legal advice 10k is a lot of money to have tied up with paypal, especially when you cannot get a straight answer from them even though you are supplying everything they have hasked for.

Absolute fools, I really hate this comapny it i about time they were shut down for good, when it comes to fraudsters they take the cake!!

Best of luck I have been in your position and in the end it resulted in the demise of my business so know exactly how you feel I would never wish what is happening to you on my worst enemy it does make you feel as though working hard and trying to make something of yourself is just a waste of time.

Chin up, force this situation to an end at least then you will lnow where you stand......................

dixie1471

Hi, OP. I am very supprised to hear that someone is actually having the same nightmare as I had about 5 Months ago. The same silly requests from Paypal about Invoices etc and the same excuse of being too high risk. I tried for weeks to get them to accept my Valid Invoices HRMC Docs but without success. After a few days of the limitation I realised this wasnt going to be easy so set up a new ebay account (as this was also frozen to new listings etc) in a friends name and also a new paypal account in that name. I then ran my business (with poor reputation at first) and luckily (with the item I sell being unique) I got back to normal pretty quickly. I then continued to get sense out of paypal for a few months. They only had £1600.00 of my money as I withdrew every Friday so this wasnt such a big hit for my cashflow. Be reminded though that after 6 Months they HAVE TO give this back to you. I eventually gave into the fact that even without a reason why I was too risky that the paypal account was never going to reinstated. I can only presume that as i was withdrawing the funds weekly I was leaving Paypal with a potential flood in chargebacks etc which they wont immediately have to refund the buyer. (I cant think of any other risk I was putting them in). Anyway, this took me onto the Excellent Ebay account which had over 10K feedback, Top Rated Status, Gold PS status, which I could not use due to it being linked to the paypal account. Ebay say we cannot put it back to normal until the paypal issue is resolved. I then thought really hard and realised that my registered email address on my Ebay account was not the same at the Paypal address which had been limited. I therefore linked the ebay address to a paypal account which was not limted. I then removed the link from my ebay account to the affected paypal account. (In the section where you pay your fees in Seller Account) I then rang the PS Support and said why hasnt my ebay account been reinstated when the paypal issue affecting its normal use has no issues now. They did NOT look at the original paypal account which had caused the problem and trusted me when i said the Paypal account....... (new one) has no limitations now. After a few mins of him pressing buttons I had my original ebay account back and could use as normal with my new pp account. I then swiftly changed the registered name on the ebay account to the friend so no decisions on the person (me) could affect any of these accounts again. I use turbo lister so had immediate access to relist all my items on my original ebay account and end them on the newly created account. I may be without £1600.00 for 6 Months but my trading was never affected thanks to loopholes within ebay. They are rubbish but as we all know, we do need them to earn the best money.

I hope I have helped you in a little way.

Nigel.

stefone

UnderPressure wrote: »

These people at paypal really are fools! OK so they do deal with may many fraudsters on a daily basis but when innocent people get caught up in their pathetic silly little games as we can see from this post it quickly turns into a disaster!

OP you could try ringing and hoping someone with a brain picks up the phone unlikely though, paypal seem to emply robots that can do nothing but read from preconfigured scripts I fear you may be wasting more valuable time.

If you have supplied them with everything they have asked for then I would be off now to see a solicitor that specialises in this sort of thing, paypal have a seperate legal department that get involved quickly when they realise they may have to answer to a possible court case, this is not a guarantee you are going to get what you want, it is however a guarantee to move things on good or bad so you will either get the problem sorted and your money released or you know you are going to be heading to court.

Seel some professional legal advice 10k is a lot of money to have tied up with paypal, especially when you cannot get a straight answer from them even though you are supplying everything they have hasked for.

Absolute fools, I really hate this comapny it i about time they were shut down for good, when it comes to fraudsters they take the cake!!

Best of luck I have been in your position and in the end it resulted in the demise of my business so know exactly how you feel I would never wish what is happening to you on my worst enemy it does make you feel as though working hard and trying to make something of yourself is just a waste of time.

Chin up, force this situation to an end at least then you will lnow where you stand......................

Well solicitor is now needed. Sent off over 100 invoices via fax and email over last 2 days. Logged on today and low and behold and email from Pyapal saying unfortuantely we regret to inform yiu that from al the informatin you have sent you pose a too high riosk and we have had to close down your account. We will be holding all your money for the next 180 days and there is nothing you can do about it.

So guess legal battle now commences. Spoke to them this morning and Paypal stated that even though I have added my solicior as authorised user to discuss account queries only they are not allowed to speak to him and only the main account holder.

Is it me or do they not know how a single business works.

I have staff that can go into my own branch and withdraw funds form my business accounts no questions asked, basically cause we have given them authority to do so. This like anything else is just a p*** take.

£11000 pound down and nothing I can do.

The have said reason we cant have access is in case of chargebacks etc and refunds needed. Mentioned the words Distance Selling Regulations and that someone cant have a refund months down the line but they said that l;aw didnt make any difference, and chargebacks - We only ship to verified and confirmed details within Paypal hence no risk of any charge backs.

You have to love them.

Well anyone been down the actual legal route and can give me some pointers