Self-employed hours.....

xnatalie81x

When i am working out how many hours i work per week can i include travel time?

I work at a swimming pool so i claim the 40p per mile to travel there and back but can i include the 20mins driving time in my weekly hours???

THANKS

Premier_2

If you are self employed, you can work it out how you like; you are in control.

Whether your customer is prepared to pay you is up to them and will ultimately depend on the terms agreed.

If you work in the same place, are paid on an hourly basis, and are paid expenses, it sounds like they employ you rather than you being self employed.

paulwf

What work do you do at the swimming pool and do you work at any other places in your self employed job?

xnatalie81x

It is my own swim school and i teach swimming alongside teachers i employ on a self-employed basis. I pay myself a weekly amount, some is for the teaching i do and some for the admin work i do. It is currently very low but then i am building the business.

THANKS for the advice i think i am going to include travel time so i work 9-10 sat and 12.30-2.30 but i have to spend 30minutes either side setting up and clearing away plus travel time of 20 mins there and 20 mins back twice in that day and then on Sunday i am there 12.30-1.30 teaching with the hour set up and down and 40mins travel. Total 9hours

I also do one hour a week for a school (employed) and then the adming hours and advertising i do each week is around 7hours TOTAL 17hours a week on average

(i also do cover teaching and invigilating so occasionally will be higher than this but at least i have a proper average amount for now)

Premier_2

xnatalie81x wrote: »

It is my own swim school and i teach swimming alongside teachers i employ on a self-employed basis....

If you run your own swin school, what does it matter how many hours you are working?

As a swim school owner, does your revenue not come directly from those you provide lessons to?

If you are employing other teaching staff, why are you not doing so properly under PAYE (other than in an attempt to avoid your responsibility to pay them for holidays, sickness, etc and additional employers NI)?

Edit: if it's your own swim school, teaching your kids to swim is not exactly a staff discount
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=33725073&postcount=284

However, if someone else is paying for your kids to learn to swim as a perk of your job, (saving you £400 a year) again that points to the fact that you are actually employed.

paulwf

OP, as the other couple of posters have pointed out little of what you state makes sense. Please don't think I'm being confrontational, I only say this because if you get your calculations wrong you could get into all sorts of trouble with HMRC and also if you start off on a good footing it'll save you having a nightmare recalculating everything later on.

Your situation seems quite complicated as you have self employed staff (a can of worms in itself if you get their employment status wrong) plus you mention other employment, possibly other self employment, tax credits and later maternity allowance.

Basically you need professional help otherwise you could end up in a mess. The sooner you get that help the better, you don't want any unexpected tax bills in 18 months time and you certainly don't want any hassle when it comes to tax investigations.

My advice would be to book a couple of hours with an accountant, it shouldn't cost too much and will allow you to get the correct structure in place. If for whatever reason you don't want to do that then please call HMRC as they can be very helpful, it's hard to give in depth advice on an internet forum. Business Link may also be able to point you in the right direction. Please make sure you spend some time getting this right, you won't want any stress when your baby comes along.

xnatalie81x

thanks - your advice is really helpful. I don't actually earn enough in the year to reach the tax threshold at the moment and the maternity leave is really just a luxury - i probably won't bother claiming to be honest.

My other work is employed basis, only my swim school is self-employed at the moment (although i have in the past done other SE work for swim schools etc) - i also do teaching for about 3 other swim centres on a casual basis and invigilating.

I certainly cannot afford an accountant. Am just trying to work as much as i possibly can to earn around my 3 young children (and the one on the way) - especially as i am now living at home after splitting with the children's dad.

The hours worked question is to ensure i am claiming the right tax credits as i recently cut my hours from another employer. You are right lol - my circumstances are mega complicated but i am hoping ot build and build my swim school. I am not shirking responsibility for tax and ni for those who teach for me but within the private swim school industry there is an acceptance that you are self employed..... i have been teaching for 8 years and it is a kind of unwritten rule?? Although i do have termly (6-8 week) 'contracts' for my teachers and a basci knowledge of employment law (only from my hnc in business and lots of reading) - i am taking my chances with a lovely team of teachers who all teach for other swim schools and clubs as SE teachers. I also advise them on how to do tax return etc.......

Again thanks for the advice

paulwf

xnatalie81x wrote: »

I certainly cannot afford an accountant.

To clarify I'm not saying get one to do your returns every year (which does get expensive) but rather have one meeting with a specific list of points so you can start off on the right footing. It's worth getting a quote or at least mentioning when you meet new contacts, there are so many people willing to help small businesses.

I also advise them on how to do tax return etc.......

I'm going to sound horrible but I wouldn't advise anybody that is contracted to you about their tax returns. Just tell them what their obligations are and that they should contact HMRC or an accountant for specific advice. If you give them wrong advice (a real possibility as our system is complicated and downright bizarre at times) and they get into trouble because of that they aren't going to be too happy with you. There is no need to get into the specifics of tax returns for your freelancers so don't

Don't forget the benefits board on this forum can be a help with working tax credits and don't be afraid to call any of the tax and benefit departments you deal with...they are there to help.

Savvy_Sue

xnatalie81x wrote: »

I am not shirking responsibility for tax and ni for those who teach for me but within the private swim school industry there is an acceptance that you are self employed..... i have been teaching for 8 years and it is a kind of unwritten rule?? Although i do have termly (6-8 week) 'contracts' for my teachers and a basci knowledge of employment law (only from my hnc in business and lots of reading) - i am taking my chances with a lovely team of teachers who all teach for other swim schools and clubs as SE teachers.

That's lovely, but an unwritten 'rule' which is 'accepted within the swim school industry' may not get you very far if HMRC take a look and decide you should all have been formally employed, and it's going to be especially hard on the 'employers' who could face hefty tax bills.

HMRC have a questionnaire you can work through on their website which helps you work out if someone is employed or not. Start from this page and see if you still think your teachers should be self-employed! You can also ask HMRC for a determination.

xnatalie81x

Indications that a worker is your employee

An individual is likely to be employed by you if most of the following statements apply to them.

• You can tell them what work to do, as well as how, where and when to do it. - they have to teach at my llocated pool but they teach how they like (although this is what they are taught to teach on their level 2 qualification)
• They have to do their work themselves.??
• You can move the worker from task to task. - no they only teach swimming
• They’re contracted to work a set number of hours. - sort of, for 6 weeks they are given set hours but in their 'contracts' i can change the hours if work not available and can be they are offerred no hours for the next term
• They get a regular wage or salary, even if there is no work available.- no, no work then no pay
• They have benefits such as paid leave or a pension as part of their contract.no, if they have time off they must find their own cover and work 44 wks a year, never 2wk xmas, 2 wk easter or 4 wks summer
• You pay them overtime pay or bonus payments.no
• They manage anyone else who works for you. no

Indications that a worker is self-employed

If any of these statements applies, your worker is likely to be self-employed.

• They can hire someone else to do the work you’ve given them, or take on helpers at their own expense.yes, they hve to find their own cover
• They can decide where to provide their services, as well as when and how to do the work you’ve given them.they must teach at the swimming pool as i hire it?? but they decide how to teach i just provide the swimmers so to speak and they choose hours they want to work within the hours i hire the pool??
• You pay them an agreed fixed price - it doesn't depend on how long the job takes to finish. - yes they get their session rate and they have to teach their class and clear up and set up
• They can make a loss or a profit.?? i guess if they only have 30min session and they claim expenses for travel and laundry it is possible to make a loss

Even if none of the statements in the previous list applies, your worker is still likely to be self-employed if most of the following apply to them.

• They use their own money to buy business assets, pay for running costs, etc.- we use the toys and equipment at the pool?? but they buy their own costumes and laundry etc
• They’re responsible for putting right any unsatisfactory work, at their own expense and in their own time.not really pplicable, if they do a bad job i won't offer them hours for the next term
• They provide the main tools and equipment needed to do their work.- these are at the pool already, main tools floats and woggles..... but they must wear swimwear which they provide???

I am mega confused, what do you think from the above and if i were to have employees what would it involve??? the easiest way pls lol - i don't mind doing it i just don't want to do it wrong!

Premier_2

As Savvy_Sue says, you can ask HMRC for a determination.

Remember the rules equally to you as to those you employ.