new main board for electrics

24_hour_sparks

QUOTE

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Although the electrican can issue certificates he was not happy to do so because he knows the circuits/ rings coming off the board are not up to standard.

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UNBELIEVIABLE, he hasnt issued you with a safety certificate beacuse he has done something which is against the wiring regs,is unsafe with regard to BS7671, and is perhaps/ probebly ilegial??????? and he as your contractor has a duty of care to his/her customers and is liabile should anything happen, hope he sleeps well at night.

If something serious happens , he will denie all knowedge and denie ever setting foot in your door.

form your information given in the above posts , in my opion the instalation is best described as an incresed risk,

also given your knowedge that you know the electrics are as you put it [n a state], surely comon sence prevails and you should be asking questions as to his expertise and his qualifications.

also this work would be notifiable under part p Building regualtions, how did he obtain / or going to obtain this certificate from the building controll dept at your councill if is a non compliance with regard to bs7671 ????????.

this is the sort of work that i believe the goverment had the intention to stop with the part p regulations.

silvercar

24_hour_sparks wrote:

QUOTE

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Although the electrican can issue certificates he was not happy to do so because he knows the circuits/ rings coming off the board are not up to standard.

---

UNBELIEVIABLE, he hasnt issued you with a safety certificate beacuse he has done something which is against the wiring regs,is unsafe with regard to BS7671, and is perhaps/ probebly ilegial??????? and he as your contractor has a duty of care to his/her customers and is liabile should anything happen, hope he sleeps well at night.

If something serious happens , he will denie all knowedge and denie ever setting foot in your door.

form your information given in the above posts , in my opion the instalation is best described as an incresed risk,

also given your knowedge that you know the electrics are as you put it [n a state], surely comon sence prevails and you should be asking questions as to his expertise and his qualifications.

also this work would be notifiable under part p Building regualtions, how did he obtain / or going to obtain this certificate from the building controll dept at your councill if is a non compliance with regard to bs7671 ????????.

this is the sort of work that i believe the goverment had the intention to stop with the part p regulations.

So are you saying I shouldn't have replaced the board without having the whole house rewired? That would have meant doing nothing at the moment. Is it not sensible to do what you can rather than nothing?

I understand your sentiment but please explain why "the installation is an increased risk"?

The impression I got was that there was little point in getting a certificate for what he's done at the moment, given that when its all done I can get, from him, a certificate for the lot.

I used him as he was well recomended by 2 unconnected people who had personally both had work done by him on more than one occasion.

24_hour_sparks

the term increased risk states exactly that, however i only have the limited information as to which you have given and that would best describe its condition although it doesnt mean its unsafe.

regardless of your recomendations recieved from other people and his previous works he/she carried out/ in this case you have clearly stated that you recieved no certificate for the works that where carried out by this person and you where aware there were problems that needed attention,which you have paid for i assume in good faith,

as previously stated above with refrence to the testing he needs to do,to re-energise the newly designed circuits, how did he achevieve this?,
how did he know that what he has done is safe?,
if something happens how are you going to give your insuarnce company for example details and compliance for the work he has done?

listen, belive me i have no vested intrest in this but to me this stinks and i am trying to help you.

you as a customer deserve to have a descent safe instalation.

If it was me personally i would find out who he is registered with, and phone them thats what they are there for.
point out you havent recieved a cert, and ask them to attend to investigate.
it must be noted that this service is FREE to you because that is part of the scheme rules to which he is i assume a member of.
if the independant surveyor finds deviations to bs7671, then his duty is to pass those concerns to the contractor, and the contractor is oblidged to put it right at his expence not yours.
if for example the company/trader stops trading then again as part your your bond with the registration body this entitiles you to have the work carried out free of charge by anouther contractor which is appointed.

last but not least,
if the electrician has been compliant to the best of his/her abilitys/duty of care for which you have paid for then he or you have nothing to worry about.

thanks

silvercar

if the independant surveyor finds deviations to bs7671, then his duty is to pass those concerns to the contractor, and the contractor is oblidged to put it right at his expence not yours.

So in theory, I call the independant surveyor, they inspect and find that all my wiring is ancient/ unearthed lights circuit/ whatever.
They instruct the electrician that the replacement of the main board was therefore unsafe and instruct him to rewire my whole house for free!

Or am I missing something!

baldelectrician

Quote:
Anyway the work has been done and everything switched back on OK. Although the electrican can issue certificates he was not happy to do so because he knows the circuits/ rings coming off the board are not up to standard.

That's the point of certificates, if there are deviations (not dangerous situations) then these are detailed on the paperwork. This guy sounds like the people who don't test.
I did a new consumer unit 3 weeks ago and when testing found the earth was poor, the local electricity board were called and dug up the customers garden to repair a fault with the supply cable- at no cost to the customer.

What's the difference I hear you say, to put it in laymans terms if the earth connection is poor or not there then you are likely to get a fatal shock if an appliance develops a fault as the MCB/fuse will not trip quickly enough (or not at all), during this time things connected (kettles / washing machines ) will be live to touch.

The certificate does two things- makes your house insurance valid - if all is OK,.
If the certificate notifies you of any deviations -and if you fail to put them right orn take reasonable action and something happens YOU (the customer) are liable.

Remember if something happens and if there is no paper chase then where does the buck stop?

As far as the surveyor thing goes, the surveyor will pass the inspection to a registered electrican as he or she will not be competent to do electrical reports.

Better to ask a local registered electrician round to have a look- if they are worth their salt they will be able to tell within a few minutes if a rewire is required.

silvercar

Someone please tell me, have I gained anything by having the consumer unit replaced?

Wickedkitten

silvercar wrote:

Someone please tell me, have I gained anything by having the consumer unit replaced?

Surely its safer not to mention easier? We still have an ancient fuseboard with the fuses that you have to use wire on that we are getting ready to have replaced.

silvercar

Wickedkitten wrote:

Surely its safer not to mention easier? We still have an ancient fuseboard with the fuses that you have to use wire on that we are getting ready to have replaced.

The old board had flippy switch units slotted into where the wire fuse holders used to be, so it won't be easier.

I've now checked the survey we had done and the surveyor recommended that we have the main consumer unit replaced inititally and give attention to some partial rewiring and upgrades. He commented that wiring was of twin and earthed uPVC cabling (good, I think). So at least I've followed my surveyr's recommendations.

baldelectrician

silvercar wrote:

The old board had flippy switch units slotted into where the wire fuse holders used to be, so it won't be easier.

I've now checked the survey we had done and the surveyor recommended that we have the main consumer unit replaced inititally and give attention to some partial rewiring and upgrades. He commented that wiring was of twin and earthed uPVC cabling (good, I think). So at least I've followed my surveyr's recommendations.

Did your surveyor say - Get someone who isn't insured, competent or complying to BS7671?
If there is no paperwork, there is no proof that everything is safe. Did you see him do any testing?
If he tested and didn't do paperwork, then that isn't as bad.

Your installation is probably safer (assuming he didn't put in a contactum consumer unit ) after the job.

Did he check / upgrade the bonding (Gas and incoming Water service pipes)?


It's about price,really.
As a registered electrician it costs me upwards of £1000 to stay registered.
It's not just the asessment fees (£411) or the yearly enrollment fee (£578) or the calibration of test equipment (£100), its the keeping things up to date (wiring regs, building certificate; health and safety courses; fire alalrm courses; Appliance Testing Courses) and time off - unapid to do these.
(oh I forgot to mention public and employers, legal and contractors all risks insurances)

Sorry about the rant but when you tell someone it's goint to be £35 to change a light fitting and they say 'the other guy said he could do it for £25' you know he probably hasn't got the relevant qualifications etc.

Rant over

silvercar

baldelectrician wrote:

Did your surveyor say - Get someone who isn't insured, competent or complying to BS7671?
If there is no paperwork, there is no proof that everything is safe. Did you see him do any testing?
If he tested and didn't do paperwork, then that isn't as bad.

I'm sure he is insured and competent, he claimed to comply but I'm not positive on that.

I wouldn't know if he did testing! It took about 4-5 hours.

baldelectrician wrote:

Your installation is probably safer (assuming he didn't put in a contactum consumer unit ) after the job.

Just what I wanted to hear, thank you! (It was an MK unit.)

baldelectrician wrote:

Did he check / upgrade the bonding (Gas and incoming Water service pipes)?

Don't know how to check.

baldelectrician wrote:

It's about price,really.
As a registered electrician it costs me upwards of £1000 to stay registered.
It's not just the asessment fees (£411) or the yearly enrollment fee (£578) or the calibration of test equipment (£100), its the keeping things up to date (wiring regs, building certificate; health and safety courses; fire alalrm courses; Appliance Testing Courses) and time off - unapid to do these.
(oh I forgot to mention public and employers, legal and contractors all risks insurances)

Sorry about the rant but when you tell someone it's goint to be £35 to change a light fitting and they say 'the other guy said he could do it for £25' you know he probably hasn't got the relevant qualifications etc.

Rant over

He charged me £400, which I didn't think cheap!

Viewing this as stage 1 of an ongoing commitment to upgrade my electrics, I feel I am on the right road. When the last stage is done I will make sure I get all the certificates etc

In the mean time, rightly or wrongly, I do feel a bit safer having done the central unit. Thanks for all the comments.