'Lost in post' issues from the horses mouths

rushnowt

I have been concerned about some of my items going 'missing' through the postal system and from reading this board i can see it's not just me that it happens too. Although i find it ever so strange that so many items go awol and my bills never fail to get to me :rolleyes: i thought i'd ask RM and ebay where i stood on this. This is the reply i got from them both :

RM:- if an item is reported as lost you can obtain the form 'Lost, damaged or delayed inland mail' by phoning your local customer service centre or from your Post Office. Proof of posting will be required and a form with be sent to the recipient of the letter/package for them to fill in and return. If the form is not returned within 5 days the claim will be closed and no compensation given.

For items that are delivered damaged the same form is required and the recipient of the letter/package will make the claim.

This is what ebay have to say on the matter :- your main obligation on the site as a seller is to ship the item to the buyer in the condition that it was described on the item description. There are always going to be risks. Due to the nature of an online sale, the buyer is accepting those risks when they choose to bid on the item.

Unfortunately, situations such as this are considered by eBay as a member-to-member conflict, which users should resolve between themselves. The way in which you and the buyer deal with this situation is really a matter of your own discretion. Providing the item posted to the winning bidder, then you have fulfilled your obligation as the seller.

If the buyer did not choose to pay for insurance, you are under no obligation to provide compensation if the item does not arrive. We do however, encourage both the buyer and the seller to contact the postal company and see what they can do or suggest to help recover the cost in this situation.

Please note that if the package was lost by the postal company or arrived damaged, the buyer is unfortunately not covered by eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Programme (SPPP). If you would like to read more about the guidelines for the eligibility and coverage of eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Programme.

I hope this helps others in this situation in future.

soolin

Well, Ive just been on the phone to work as an urgent package sent to me 1st class last Thursday has so far failed to arrive. It appears that of 7 packages sent, only three people have received them so far,

My post here is appalling, I lose stuff inward as well as outward.

Soo

rsykes2000

rushnowt wrote:

If the buyer did not choose to pay for insurance, you are under no obligation to provide compensation if the item does not arrive. We do however, encourage both the buyer and the seller to contact the postal company and see what they can do or suggest to help recover the cost in this situation.

I'm sorry, but this is a complete copout. No matter whether the buyer paid for insurance or not, they should always get what they have paid for or their money refunded - it is the sellers entire responsibility to get their packet/parcel/letter to them and the seller needs to claim from the RM if this does not happen. If you were to say, "Sorry, no insurance, your entire loss" then you'd just get a paypal chargeback against you. If I send anything, it is always sent signed for, I include this cost in the cost of postage (and strangely usually come out cheaper than a lot of the postage-inflating moneygrabbers out there...)

rushnowt

i am only repeating from the email i received from ebay, this is not my saying, i was unsure so asked ebay to clarify and this is exactly what they said to me word for word

rushnowt

i can see things from both sides, i'm a bigger buyer than seller and tbh unless it was a substancial amount (which i probably wouldn't risk on ebay anyway) i'd be happy to wait for the buyer to claim against RM before refunding me.

it did bother me that 2 out of the 3 packages i sent went missing, the 1st buyer was really shirty and wanted me to refund in less than a week of posting and being new i obliged and refunded. i dont know if the parcel ever turned up or not and if it did buyer has refund and free goods now

2nd was really nice about it and was prepared to wait, refunded money after 14 days has goods had still not arrived.

Now i'm not saying that both were not genuine claims but my gut feeling is that not all people are as honest as i would like and some people are gonna try it on if they can get away with it :cool:

i was under the impression that paypal is owned by ebay, if so they really do need to make some proper clarification regarding this, as from what ebay are saying the seller is not responsible and not obliged to refund if item is lost in post. If this is the case then how can paypal then have a different veiw

My main concern was reading what RM say, that if the customer does not return form within 5 days then the claim is closed and no compensation will be given. so if the customer cant be bothered to return the form, seller is stuffed with regards to claiming for lost item

Daisydoll

I am running a small busniess via ebay and I get about 3-4 packages go missing per month at the moment.:mad: Gets a bit frustrating as buyer do not believe you have sent it most of the times! I will awlays send out a replacement or refund where possible though, as my items are not too high in price which I am glad of in some ways.

soolin

Actually everyone is right...

The point i keep going on and on about is that ebay is a 2 tier system and anyone that does not use paypal can lose *all* buyer protection, which is why I continue to urge people to make sure all purchases go through paypal.

With paypal it doesn't matter a hoot what ebay say, paypal whilst owned by ebay are still independent and will refund a buyer automatically when a chargeback has run its course and the seller cannot prove delivery. It doesn't matter what ebay say, or what rules the Royal Mail has, no proof of delivery = sellers loss. So, sellers should take all reasonable precautions to cover themselves by using a COP for items under £32 or special delivery for items in excess of £32 whether or not the buyer wants it. With a COP or special delivery slip the seller just refunds the buyer and reclaims from the RM.

However the difference, and it is a big difference and I believe quite sneaky is where a buyer uses a method other than paypal to pay for an ebay win. Certain payment methods are covered by ebay protection, (not all, so be careful). In that case where an item is lost the seller will again be held to account entirely by ebay *unless* the buyer was offered insurance and declined it. I understand, but this bit I have no link for, that the insurance needed to have been offered on the invoice, or in the auction so that ebay can see that the offer was declined. It is not sufficient for the post and packing to show a set amount, and for the seller to offer insurance in a seperate email.

So ebay are right, they will not become involved in cases of non receipt where a buyer has specifically declined insurance. However they will be involved where insurance was taken, or where insurance was never offered. Paypal don't care a fig about insurance, the seller will lose unless they can prove delivery.

While i am on my soap box about this I would also say that I would not trust any seller who treated paypal using buyers differently to the way he treated others. A loss is a loss and the buyer should be refunded and not have to resort to ebay claims or paypal chargebacks.

Soo

OverlandLandy

I can see this from both sides.

I will post out high value items recorded/insured (often at my expense) to cover ME.

I have had one item that arrived in France in bits (the buyer sent me pictures!!!). I partially refunded him (by mutual agreement). I have submitted a claim via Royal Mail - but as yet (5 weeks on) I have heard nothing.

I now ALWAYS get proof of posting as you are covered for 'low value' items.

I do now state however that I always get Proof of Posting and that all losses will be at the buyers expense.

I do this to discourage the scammers (of which there are a few out there I'm afraid!). I also look at the feedback comments and once 'challanged a non-delivery' of which the buyer had had had many!!!....and as if by magic the Item 'had just arrived!!!'

soolin

OverlandLandy wrote:

I
I do now state however that I always get Proof of Posting and that all losses will be at the buyers expense.
'

I assume you don't take paypal then? If you do then your statement is worthless and if you don't then I would see it as a sign of a careless seller and would not touch the auction with a bargepole.

Sellers who do not accept responsibility and treat non paypal buyers in this way are the reason why I continue to push paypal as the only payment method that should be used on ebay.

Soo

bingo_bango

rushnowt wrote:

Please note that if the package was lost by the postal company or arrived damaged, the buyer is unfortunately not covered by eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Programme (SPPP). If you would like to read more about the guidelines for the eligibility and coverage of eBay's Standard Purchase Protection Programme.

I hope this helps others in this situation in future.

That is a total cop out by Ebay. When you agree to sell something and receive payment, you are entering into a civil contract. If you receive payment, then you should get the goods to the other party. Ebay might say it's nothing to do with them (and technically they are right), but the seller still has an obligation.

Think of it this way.....
If you ordered a laptop from Dell, and it didn't arrive....would you chase up RM, or Dell? And if Dell said, 'sorry, we sent it, you'll have to take it up with RM'.....would you accept that and walk away from Dell?

I know what I'd be doing.

zappahey

OverlandLandy wrote:

I do now state however that I always get Proof of Posting and that all losses will be at the buyers expense.

This sort of auction listing makes me run a mile and I wouldn't touch it unless it was something that I really couldn't get elsewhere.

It suggests that the seller has no idea of his or her legal responsibilities.