Holiday Pay

liney

OP - the bones of it are that she will have agreed to be self employed at some point, but you can choose to report the company to regulating bodies - GLA and REC, if you wish, who may investigate their practices in general, as well as specifically your claims.

The HMRC are unhappy with these Umberella arrangments because they lose revenue from Income Tax - your GF will pay very little in comparison to a PAYE employee - and if you look at the HMRC's definition of self employed, then Temps do not meet the criteria. New legislation is likely to come into play soon anyway :http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/income-tax/brief5009.htm

SarEl

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

No.

I am not missing the point.

It is illegal to advertise a position for a pay rate that includes holiday pay without making it clear.


Whatever happens after that is irrelevant. Especially for an agency acting for a client that is in fact itself.

I am perhaps not making myself clear. This is not a pay rate in the sense of employment. It is a contractual rate for a contract of service. It is unlawful to roll up the holiday pay into the hourly rate of employees. It isn't illegal to do so for self-employed contractors because employment law does not cover the self-employed. A contractor has to legal right to holidays - if they choose to take them that is their business alone, because they work for themselves and can make any decisions they want. It is therefore something of a red herring to show "holiday pay" at all in the wage slips of an umbrella company because holiday (nor anything else - like maternity pay) come into it. Because there is no holiday. Just a straight rate for a service provided.

David_Brent

1984ReturnsForReal wrote: »

No.

I am not missing the point.

It is illegal to advertise a position for a pay rate that includes holiday pay without making it clear.


Whatever happens after that is irrelevant. Especially for an agency acting for a client that is in fact itself.

I agree false advertising...!

1985dj

Not once was it mentioned to Claire in the interviews or inductions, what would happen if she was to get paid through an umbrella scheme. She did not know until recently that she would only get minumum wage with 70p holiday pay on top to make it £6.50 and she isn't the only one who is in this situation. Claire, along with most if not all of the other agency workers were expecting to get paid the amount in the advert (£6.50 to £7.55) If she was told she was only going to get minimum wage she wouldn't have accepted the job (or even applied for it in the first place!) There are others that have left other jobs to come to this one because they thought it was slighty better paid!

Even if they had of mentioned it to Claire when she first asked for time off that she wouldnt get paid AT ALL because of this umbrella scheme (instead of saying "not sure if you will have accrued enough holiday pay by then to cover the whole 4 days" she wouldnt have had all the days off. As a result, she has no pay at all for that week and is now in debt.

Claire is paying £16.84 for a service she never asked for and didn't really need. Claire signed a lot of paperwork but doesn't ever recall any of them mentioning anything about being self employed. She requested a copy of her contract today as she was never given it when she started, so we will have another look at that when she gets it.

The others at TK Maxx who used to be agency workers said they never had any of these sorts of problems with Blue Arrow.

Claire understands that there is nothing she can do about the holiday pay now, she must have signed something to be part of the umbrella scheme, but doesnt know where to go from here. Is it fraud by false representation? (section 2 of the fraud act 2006)
as Proactive Personnel's job advert for tk maxx is very misleading, and Claire was hired under false pretenses.

Thanks for everyones help by the way.

David_Brent

1985dj wrote: »

Not once was it mentioned to Claire in the interviews or inductions, what would happen if she was to get paid through an umbrella scheme. She did not know until recently that she would only get minumum wage with 70p holiday pay on top to make it £6.50 and she isn't the only one who is in this situation. Claire, along with most if not all of the other agency workers were expecting to get paid the amount in the advert (£6.50 to £7.55) If she was told she was only going to get minimum wage she wouldn't have accepted the job (or even applied for it in the first place!) There are others that have left other jobs to come to this one because they thought it was slighty better paid!

Even if they had of mentioned it to Claire when she first asked for time off that she wouldnt get paid AT ALL because of this umbrella scheme (instead of saying "not sure if you will have accrued enough holiday pay by then to cover the whole 4 days" she wouldnt have had all the days off. As a result, she has no pay at all for that week and is now in debt.

Claire is paying £16.84 for a service she never asked for and didn't really need. Claire signed a lot of paperwork but doesn't ever recall any of them mentioning anything about being self employed. She requested a copy of her contract today as she was never given it when she started, so we will have another look at that when she gets it.

The others at TK Maxx who used to be agency workers said they never had any of these sorts of problems with Blue Arrow.

Claire understands that there is nothing she can do about the holiday pay now, she must have signed something to be part of the umbrella scheme, but doesnt know where to go from here. Is it fraud by false representation? (section 2 of the fraud act 2006)
as Proactive Personnel's job advert for tk maxx is very misleading, and Claire was hired under false pretenses.

Thanks for everyones help by the way.

Unfortunately I don't think she would have much of a case at all if she has signed paper work over to them...I think its one of those situations you have to learn from and move on as fustrating as it is. If it is not the rate she expected she could always quit the job or remain doing the job (at least staying employed) until somthing more worth while comes along.

liney

Always read the small print

Premier_2

1985dj wrote: »

Is it illegal for an employer to include holiday pay in with your wages?

My girlfriend is employed with ProActive Personnel working for TK Maxx.

We recently moved house and had a weekend break away, so my girlfriend had booked a few days holiday. She hadnt been working there long enough to accrue all the days she needed, which she knew. But we were expecting her to get something as she was now in her fifth week there.

The managers are now saying that they dont get holiday pay as such. There holiday pay is included in with the wages.

The hourly rate is £6.50 which is what was told she would start on. On the wage slip each week it shows holiday pay of £25.20 being taken out the wages and put back in again. She also pays employers national insurance as well as employees national insurance.

If you divide the £25.20 by the 36 hours per week that she works, works out at 70p per hour, take this off the £6.50 per hour then works out at £5.80 which is minimum wage.

She also has to pay a fee of £15 per week our of her wages for Backoffice. Also a Tax Enquiry Insurance at £1.84. (Divide both these figures by the hours she works equals £0.46) Take this off the hourly rate, which would now be £5.34. Less than minimum wage.

As I mentioned recently in another thread, such rolled up rates are not lawful

Rolled-up holiday pay

It's unlawful not to pay a worker while they are on holiday and instead include an amount for holiday pay in the hourly rate of pay - something known as 'rolled-up holiday pay'.

You must therefore always pay a worker their normal pay while they are actually taking their leave.

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1073792640&type=RESOURCES

Edit: And as I also mentioned in another thread recently:

"...as a general rule it's wise to avoid any employer who expects the employee to pay to work for them.

As odd as it may seem, common practise is for employers to pay employees for work done. "

Mudd14

You will find conflicting websites for example from the Citizens advice;

How much holiday pay should you get

Your employer will pay your holiday pay at the same rate as your normal pay. You may get a higher rate of holiday pay if your contract gives you the right to a higher rate.
If you do casual work, or work irregular hours and aren't sure how to work out how much holiday pay you're entitled to, you should contact an experienced adviser, for example, at a Citizens Advice Bureau. For details of your nearest CAB, including those who give advice by e-mail, click on nearest CAB.
Some employers and employment agencies may say that your hourly rate of pay includes an amount for holiday pay, and that they expect you to save this part of your pay to cover your holidays. This is known as 'rolled up' holiday pay. Rolled up holiday pay may be against the law unless your holiday pay is paid on top of your basic pay and it's clear what the amount of rolled up holiday pay is. For example, the amount of rolled up holiday pay should be clearly set out in your payslip

It still remains that it is only unlawful if it is not clearly set out on the payslip. So if your employer does show your basic salary and then a seperate line for the proportion that is holiday it would be perfectly legal.

However, this pretty much sums it up;
http://www.paypershop.com/news-cat/working159.html

mariefab

Some information and a helpline in the link below.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Understandingyourworkstatus/Migrantworkers/DG_10027923

1984ReturnsForReal_2

David_Brent wrote: »

I agree false advertising...!

I think you will find it goes deeper than that.

Unlike other things, employment law & the rules of advertising are a little mixed.......