PCN because of temporary road restrictions

BradfordJoe

Hi all,

I have just had a PCN from Bradford council attached to my car and wondered if it's worth appealing.

There is a local annual event held here in Bradford and I parked my car on one of the local streets which was coned down one side but not the other.

How the hell I missed it, I don't know, but there was a sign at the top of the road stating the road was restricted to residents only permit parking during this weekend. Other than a sign at the top and the bottom of the road (at least 200m long), there was no other mention of the permit requirement.

I am resigned to paying the fine for not seeing the sign at the top of road, but wondered if I there any point appealing based perhaps on the lack of signs inbetween the top and bottom?

Thanks!

Joe

peter_the_piper

Get pics, if possible, of the signs. Most temporary restriction signs seem not to follow the regulations. Also copy/photo/scan the pcn, both sides, and post on here after removing personal details. Leave dates.
Host on tinypic, copy the url given for forums, paste the url into a post and remove the http:// bit.

BradfordJoe

Thanks Peter!

The (top of the road) sign from the front:

i48.tinypic.com/htxwk5.jpg

The (top of the road) sign from the side:

i49.tinypic.com/2i6fhg2.jpg

The sign from the other side of the road:

i49.tinypic.com/6ejpjt.jpg

The coned road:

i50.tinypic.com/2cjudra.jpg



Joe

BradfordJoe

and the PCN..

i46.tinypic.com/23jgw3m.jpg

TheBogsDollocks

The yellow signage is not prescribed in law and therefore its use needs to be authorised by the Secretary of State to be lawful. Ask the Council to provide a copy of any authorisation given (unlikely it has).

Also ask the Council to provide a copy of the temporary traffic order imposing the resident parking restriction. Good chance they failed to make an order or if they did, that they did not do so in accordance with the law.

Can you upload both sides of the PCN?

BradfordJoe

the bottom of the PCN

i50.tinypic.com/2r3fdkk.jpg

the back of the PCN

i46.tinypic.com/nmjigk.jpg

Coupon-mad

What does the top of the PCN say? You can scan it in with your car ID blanked out.

But the rest of it seems to have points of appeal I think (although I am not a PCN expert, I do read a lot on info about PCNs on here and on pepipoo.com).

I can see that it uses the word 'within' a lot which is prejudicial to you as it wrongly states the time to pay and make an appeal (which has to only be stated clearly as '28 days/14 days starting with the date on which this PCN is served') :

'take action within 14 days or risk paying more' and

and the tear-off part says :

'within 28 days' and 'within 14 days'

and the back says 'within the 14 day discount period'

and another point I think is that the back also says:

'the keeper of the vehicle is entitled to make formal reps...'

I think this should be 'the owner must'. I think they have got this bit fatally wrong.

What does anyone else think?

OP if you get few responses here, please post the pics on a new thread you should start on pepipoo.com here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

I think - if I am right - on pepipoo they might tear this PCN apart, plus the fact that the suspension was probably not signed or covered properly by a temporary Order.

Hopefully this will be another win for pepipoo (and for you). HTH

peter_the_piper

Got to agree about pepipoo.com, cannot see how those signs are kosher.

DaveF327

Were there any road markings at all? As I understand it, permit holder spaces are not legal if they are not marked as such with broken white perimeter lines. It has to be clear where the restriction begins and ends. Google streetview shows a completely blank road.

Whilst I agree that the yellow sign is not complaint with any legislation, the white one would be if it were fixed above a marked bay. That said, I've never seen a road name displayed on such a sign before. That alone opens another can of worms, because Lister Lane continues onto another seemingly separate main road marked totally differently. Some of the photos appear to have been removed so I'm unsure whether the road surface was "blank" at the place you were parked.

just4ulot

BradfordJoe wrote: »

Hi all,

I have just had a PCN from Bradford council attached to my car and wondered if it's worth appealing.

There is a local annual event held here in Bradford and I parked my car on one of the local streets which was coned down one side but not the other.

How the hell I missed it, I don't know, but there was a sign at the top of the road stating the road was restricted to residents only permit parking during this weekend. Other than a sign at the top and the bottom of the road (at least 200m long), there was no other mention of the permit requirement.

I am resigned to paying the fine for not seeing the sign at the top of road, but wondered if I there any point appealing based perhaps on the lack of signs inbetween the top and bottom?

Thanks!

Joe

Hi Joe,
I got one too the day before on Lister Lane. Bradford council has made many illegal actions with the signage. First off, the traffic order was to make the road a onewy street for that weekend, no signs displayed for that, and that caused me to enter the road from the end that should have been closed, that was why I got a parking ticket. The only 2 permit holder signs were spaced at 112.5 metres apart, far too wide to be legal. There were no bays marked on the road.
I am making complaints to bradford council about my ticket. We can fight this together and share information. Please conntact me by email or send your email address or phone number?

TheBogsDollocks

Personally I feel that the PCN fails to fully comply with what the legislation demands.

Paragraph 1(d) of the General Regs 2007 advises that a PCN must contain;

(d) the date and the time at which the alleged contravention occurred.

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?...mp;filesize=346

and in addition the Secretary of State's statutory guidance to LA's advises under paragraph
45.

The information that a PCN must contain is set
out in the Regulations. It is recommended that the PCN also gives:
· vehicle make and colour (if evident);
· detailed location of vehicle (full street name);
· the contravention code;
· observation start and finish times;
· PCN number (all PCNs should be uniquely identifiable);
· CEO’s identification number; and
· the vehicle’s tax disc number and expiry date.

Considering the above it is my view that there is a clear distinction made between what is the contravention time and what is observation time. The regs advise that the PCN must contain the contravention time while the Sec of State guidance allows an observation time to be stated but it is not a must. So there is a difference.

The PCN you received only gives the observation time it does not in my view, advise at what time the contravention is deemed to have occurred in the manner the law requires. Therefore you need to argue that the PCN is unlawul due to the fact that it does not state the time of contravention and that simply stating observation times is not compliant with what the law requires.