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Huge bill on Orange stolen phone.
Comments
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we are not really encouraged to be dynamic consumers making informed choices. we are bombared by advertising and marketing and phone companies definitely quite pathologically insist they we continute updating and buying phones by the second,
Welcome to MSE, this is about saving money and the key part is that you make your decisions. You do not let companies make them for you. Sure the advertising has gotten very effective over the years but the decision is still yours to make, gone are the days of subliminal messaging.
The T&Cs is a good point, and i won't argue there is a lot in there. But there is too much to make all in big print, even if a summary is produced there is likely to be things left out that still need to go into the terms and conditions. There was something in an MSE article about making T&Cs bigger and reducing the small print. But eventually and events do need to be taken into account for, every action that occurs needs to be handled in a fair manner, the fairness manner is a uniform approach, this prevent say the one person getting away with making free international calls against someone having to pay for phone calls on a stolen phone.
Im not against technology advancement, in actual fact it has in my opinion slowed down considerably. So many companies, so many patents. The best ideas and research cannot be used to make the best product as the patents are controlled by different companies. If one company existed with access to everything and research staff, then we would see some real advancement. The best of everything been brought together, not just 1-2 great features on one device, then a difference excellent feature on another. But again, im a graduated university student in computing, its a world i would like to see. Commercially it would never happen though. Research would have to be driven by pride and creativeness rather than profit too...Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies0 -
Ok lets go through this stage by stage.Well considering my experience I had to take a lot of time off work and cannot even pay my rent/bills etc as they are so couldn't believe it when this bill came in. I am trying to sort my life out after such an experience, which was difficult enough after this situation.
You became ill and someone nicked the p
hone but somehow the network ore somebody else is liable for the loss ??? probably because you don't have enough funds to cover this and so expect someone else to carry the loss ??
You lost your phone who else is ther to be liable ???Again I will say again, my problem is not really to do with who is liable
Are they supposed to provide an armed guard to protect your phone ???My problem is that the phone companies do nothing to help prevent this.
What policy ? ...do you mean the policy that says all calls have to be paid for or all calls made someone using the phone have to be paid for ???If they had explained to me at the time that I should be very aware of this policy (which would have taken all of two minutes),
Any large Network has millions and millions of customers but for some reason you think you can be singled out from millions as needing special monitoring ??? it doesn't happenIt would be easy for them to monitor unusual calls but as the person I spoke to on the phone said it would just be too much for them with all their customers, as I explained to them I am just one customer and should be treated as such.
So they call up the person who nicked the phone and ask if it's ok to carry on charging ...whats the theif going to say ...no ???They could do what the banks do and just call you up if unusual usage was going and if they can't get through (as they wouldn't be able to, or if they got through to the people that had taken it they would have realised it had been stolen as I do have a pin on my phone that they always ask for). Then this situation would have never occurred and if they'd managed to make a few calls, the damage would have been more minimal.
So what you are saying is that we should have a special category for those who are out of work and struggling to pay bills should have some sort of discretion applied to bills they encounter ???All I am saying is that the policy does not consider individual situations and their human nature, and I am sure no one here expected me to cancel a phone when I was having such an operation. But would you do if you were out of work as a result and struggling to pay basic bills and rent and then this turned up? the operation was bad enough but now I have to organise the payment of this I am in a complete mess.
I fully sympathise that you are in a mess with this and it's not your fault but I fail to see this as being a fault of the network but rather a fault of the theif and do not see that the network should be held liable for the actions of the thief.
So what does your insurance say about this ...I'm sure you have insurance as most people do so what do they say about it ??? do they think anyone is liable for the loss ???i am not saying that it's a problem the company profits from these things, that's just life and that cannot be changed and no they don't deserve to lose either from theft (as the card companies do, but then they are insured).
I don't follow this ....are you trying to say that calls made from a mobile are not liable to the mobile owner ??? How on earth are they supposed to know that calls dialed on the phone are made by the contract holder or a thief ????what i am saying is why don't they tell u explicitly before and help prevent you from being in this situation? that's when i reason that they are motivated by the potential profit, so they are not incentivised to do this. any company that genuinely cared about their customers would make sure they knew,
I'm quite sure anyone , including myself would sympathise with you but what do you expect them to do??? have a collection and a whipround because you are in a dire situation ...they are a a buisiness not a charity and god knows I've had a few hard luck stories given to me in the past and I'm full of sympathy but it trealy isn't my problem. It's my livelyhood and I need to make a living and can't affors to support other people !!To be honest, the total lack of sympathy and understanding for my personal circumstances i have received from some of the posters does confirm my belief that the companies and those who work for them really don't care about the individuals and their lives.
To be honest having been in the situation of finding a rape victim banging on the door at 2am in the morning having been raped for the duration of 4 hours my opinion is that the mobile bill is the least of her concernsand i do find it funny that no one has opinion on what a rape victim should do about their phone if it is stolen during the attack and calls are made
I do not see however the reason why a network should be held responsable for a rape victim's mobile phone bill ???
So yet again we are down to the profit that a network makes as to why you think this is unfair !!!a stay in hospital and even more so we don't even warn them that if this did happen we would hold them liable. but as i have said all along why would they be incentivised if they stand to make a fortune?
And yet again I should say why should a ntwork be responable for circumstances that are beyond their control.???It's not just about the money0 -
... that's like saying a murder victim was stupidly killed and somehow it was their fault for being murdered.
Spuriously analogize much?
Get thee back under thine own bridge!In a rut? Can't get out? Don't know why?
It's time to make that change.
Cover up all the pain in your life
With our new product range.
So please don't feel blue - let us show you how
To talk yourself into a good mood right now.
Feeling sad is no longer allowed,
No matter how worthless you are.0 -
Ok lets go through this stage by stage.
You became ill and someone nicked the p
hone but somehow the network ore somebody else is liable for the loss ??? probably because you don't have enough funds to cover this and so expect someone else to carry the loss ??
You lost your phone who else is ther to be liable ???
Are they supposed to provide an armed guard to protect your phone ???
What policy ? ...do you mean the policy that says all calls have to be paid for or all calls made someone using the phone have to be paid for ???
Any large Network has millions and millions of customers but for some reason you think you can be singled out from millions as needing special monitoring ??? it doesn't happen
So they call up the person who nicked the phone and ask if it's ok to carry on charging ...whats the theif going to say ...no ???
So what you are saying is that we should have a special category for those who are out of work and struggling to pay bills should have some sort of discretion applied to bills they encounter ???
I fully sympathise that you are in a mess with this and it's not your fault but I fail to see this as being a fault of the network but rather a fault of the theif and do not see that the network should be held liable for the actions of the thief.
So what does your insurance say about this ...I'm sure you have insurance as most people do so what do they say about it ??? do they think anyone is liable for the loss ???
I don't follow this ....are you trying to say that calls made from a mobile are not liable to the mobile owner ??? How on earth are they supposed to know that calls dialed on the phone are made by the contract holder or a thief ????
I'm quite sure anyone , including myself would sympathise with you but what do you expect them to do??? have a collection and a whipround because you are in a dire situation ...they are a a buisiness not a charity and god knows I've had a few hard luck stories given to me in the past and I'm full of sympathy but it trealy isn't my problem. It's my livelyhood and I need to make a living and can't affors to support other people !!
To be honest having been in the situation of finding a rape victim banging on the door at 2am in the morning having been raped for the duration of 4 hours my opinion is that the mobile bill is the least of her concerns
I do not see however the reason why a network should be held responsable for a rape victim's mobile phone bill ???
So yet again we are down to the profit that a network makes as to why you think this is unfair !!!
And yet again I should say why should a ntwork be responable for circumstances that are beyond their control.???
Personally, I prefer the short, sharp, witty reply. Saves so much time and effort. Besides, I have a life. I don't have time to sit here obsessively and compulsively checking this thread every 5 minutes to make sure it's still here and has not been stolen! My God! Martin Lewis is terrible. He should protect me and explain to me that these forums could cause considerable damage to my health, wealth and well-being. I think my ISP should let me off my broadband bill, as it's not my fault websites like this distract me and allow burglars to break in and steal my gravy. It's like a fisherman falling overboard in the middle of the sea. No-one would hear him, but he should still be given a big mac and fries! I blame the dolphins! Turtles have better social skills than that lot! :eek:In a rut? Can't get out? Don't know why?
It's time to make that change.
Cover up all the pain in your life
With our new product range.
So please don't feel blue - let us show you how
To talk yourself into a good mood right now.
Feeling sad is no longer allowed,
No matter how worthless you are.0 -
emily, this is my first post on this thread.
I have two very direct questions for you - so direct answers would be good
1) All SIM cards and phones can be locked. The SIM card is locked through your phones settings. Why did a self-confessed technophobe not read the manual to learn of these basic features which have been around over ten years?
2) Why do you take out contracts (not necessarily just for phones) without reading what you are agreeing to?
Like I said, direct answers would be good with no waffle 0 -
Ok lets go through this stage by stage.
You became ill and someone nicked the p
hone but somehow the network ore somebody else is liable for the loss ??? probably because you don't have enough funds to cover this and so expect someone else to carry the loss ??
You lost your phone who else is ther to be liable ???
Are they supposed to provide an armed guard to protect your phone ???
What policy ? ...do you mean the policy that says all calls have to be paid for or all calls made someone using the phone have to be paid for ???
Any large Network has millions and millions of customers but for some reason you think you can be singled out from millions as needing special monitoring ??? it doesn't happen
So they call up the person who nicked the phone and ask if it's ok to carry on charging ...whats the theif going to say ...no ???
So what you are saying is that we should have a special category for those who are out of work and struggling to pay bills should have some sort of discretion applied to bills they encounter ???
I fully sympathise that you are in a mess with this and it's not your fault but I fail to see this as being a fault of the network but rather a fault of the theif and do not see that the network should be held liable for the actions of the thief.
So what does your insurance say about this ...I'm sure you have insurance as most people do so what do they say about it ??? do they think anyone is liable for the loss ???
I don't follow this ....are you trying to say that calls made from a mobile are not liable to the mobile owner ??? How on earth are they supposed to know that calls dialed on the phone are made by the contract holder or a thief ????
I'm quite sure anyone , including myself would sympathise with you but what do you expect them to do??? have a collection and a whipround because you are in a dire situation ...they are a a buisiness not a charity and god knows I've had a few hard luck stories given to me in the past and I'm full of sympathy but it trealy isn't my problem. It's my livelyhood and I need to make a living and can't affors to support other people !!
To be honest having been in the situation of finding a rape victim banging on the door at 2am in the morning having been raped for the duration of 4 hours my opinion is that the mobile bill is the least of her concerns
I do not see however the reason why a network should be held responsable for a rape victim's mobile phone bill ???
So yet again we are down to the profit that a network makes as to why you think this is unfair !!!
And yet again I should say why should a ntwork be responable for circumstances that are beyond their control.???
right instead of going through each point by point, i want to make clear that i expect do not expect anyone to be liable for this bill (the mobile company and others). I am stupid obviously and thought that if a phone was stolen and calls were made (in the case where the person reasonable couldn't be expected to report it - rape, being in hospital etc) the company would have some kind of cover over this so the victim was not responsible. i reasoned this because this happened to me when money was spent on my card and i got a refund and was covered, despite the fact that the card was stolen without me noticing immediately and money was spent. i was notified and refunded. obviously the phone company don't work like this and all i ask is that they make this clearer when they sign u up to the contract, because if so i definitely would have superglued the phone to my hand and make sure it was on sight at all time
also, tracking of unusual usage is possibly because banks and card companies do it and they have loads of customers so if they can do it then so can be phone companies. i'm not saying they phone up and ask the thief, i have a pin on my phone and am asked for it all the time so obviously they could just ask the person and it would be confirmed it wasn't me, the person wouldn't know my address, date of birth etc and so it could easily be confirmed. this would all take less than 2 minutes and i am sure people would appreciate it if it meant the company was helping protect them against theft and a huge bill
i am not asking for sympathy - people were continually telling me i was irresponsible and negligent and despite a detailed explanation of my circumstances no one bothered to retract such comments although i'd like to see them even notice a phone stolen and be able to report it in my situation (i'm not criticising-obviously i wasn't able to either!!)
that's my whole point re the rape victim... of course they don't give a crap about a mobile, hence why they won't call and cancel it. but then when they're trying to recover and a huge bill comes in then that's gonna just add to their stress and definitely something they don't need. i can say as being involved in forensic psychology you'd be surprised at the things that can tip people over the edge when they've been through trauma and a bill they can't pay for may be just that, particularly when it's their perpetrators who have caused it. it's very stressful for a rape victim because they'll feel their perp is still attacking them even though they should be feeling somewhat safer. obviously none of us can imagine this and we shouldn't assume it wouldn't affect them
i am not asking for support, a whip round whatever. i am of no doubt we live in a profit motivated culture so god knows i don't expect anything like that. what i am asking for is some kind of ethical responsibility. so if people could stop saying i am looking to be bailed out i'm not. my problem is how the policy is delivered and how the company goes about preventing this kind of situation. obviously i know it's done to the customer, but at the end of the day you have an ongoing contract with your mobile, they should take some responsibility and equip you in any way they can to tackle this kind of criminality.0 -
just to confirm, when i refer to cover in the case of the debit card, i mean some kind of insurance the company has (i've never had any insurance on my cards but i have still been covered, so it's theirs not mine)
i also apologise for a few misplaced words- bit late and i have made a few mistakes. hope it's understandable!0 -
emily, this is my first post on this thread.
I have two very direct questions for you - so direct answers would be good
1) All SIM cards and phones can be locked. The SIM card is locked through your phones settings. Why did a self-confessed technophobe not read the manual to learn of these basic features which have been around over ten years?
2) Why do you take out contracts (not necessarily just for phones) without reading what you are agreeing to?
Like I said, direct answers would be good with no waffle
1. my sim and phone did have a lock, but i imagine they managed not to keep it switched on so it didn't matter
2. i suggest that this is because i am like 99% of my family and friends who don't bother with the small print. as i've said on a previous post to be quite honest i find that phone providers can be quite aggressive with their strategy in getting you to sign up and definitely make me feel rushed and uncomfortable to go through the contract in detail (rightly or wrongly on my part i do understand), so maybe they could say take all your time there are some very important points here. Further, call me naive as I am sure many will but I honestly didn't think something that could hold you liable for potentially thousands of pounds would not be discussed and would simply be part of the terms and conditions. companies have been criticised a lot in the past for the way they put very major issues in terms and conditions and i feel this is definitely one of these cases. i assume that the phone company doesn't want this happening, so i don't understand why they wouldn't draw it to your attention? obviously, i am now never going to make that mistake. i am 100% on guard for these things now, but i kind of think that's a shame. call me idealist but i would rather live in a world to trust people (including massive companies) to have our backs and to ensure that we're definitely aware of something so important? i mean it must be an issue, people are having this happen to them constantly (as i've read a lot about online since this happened to me) and wouldn't the companies want to make sure that no one ever made the mistake again? as clearly the small print isn't working!! but my mistake, will go to every effort to make sure it doesn't happen again. although i am a full supporter of pay as you go now!! 0 -
I think the point that emily1504 is trying to make is that a contract should come with something like a "key fact" document as with financial products.
The problem with this is that by the time all the key facts listed for a mobile phone, you would effectively end up with the T&C's anyway, which a lot of people won't read. I've lost count of the number times I have seen people asked to read something and they pretend to and sign, some people just are irresponsible.
The information is all there in the T&C's and folk should just grow a pair, take responsibility for there actions and read what they are signing up to.
There is a reason why certain individuals are excluded from credit agreements, for them the mobile providers have PAYG.My farts hospitalize small children
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1. my sim and phone did have a lock, but i imagine they managed not to keep it switched on so it didn't matter
Not sure what you mean, but your handset can be set to ask for your PIN each time you unlock they keypad.2. i suggest that this is because i am like 99% of my family and friends who don't bother with the small print.
Absolutely and totally your own fault then.0
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