Fighting a parking ticket without original?

Nick_R

Hi,

I was given a PCN fine whilst staying at a local hotel (where I bought the 'scratch' parking ticket).

The ticket was clearly shown on my dash, with the correct date (but not the year!) scratched out. I was thus given a fine.

I photocopied the scratch ticket, along with the hotel's invoice and recept showing that when and where I had purchased the ticket, had a solicitor certify it, and sent it off with my challenge.

They came back and said that they need the original scratch card for 'auditting' reasons, but I have moved house since then and cannot find the original anywhere!

Why on earth can't a certified copy be enough for these people? Does anyone know anything I can do to challenge this further (I still have one more copy that was certified), and if it is worth it seeing as I don't have the original anymore?

Orford

Just to be clear, is this a Private Parking company ticket or a Council PCN?

If the former, the easiest and most effective way of dealing with it is to ignore anything they send you from now on. After 3 or 4 ever more threatening letters, they will eventually give up.

Coupon-mad

Yep, if it's a private company let them 'go whistle'.

Don't write again and completely ignore their debt collector letters which will follow (part of the scam). Never take a private praking charge notice seriously - the whole industry is a scam based on unenforceable demands for money.

If you click on the blue link 'Parking Fines, Tickets & Parking' (under the orange Banking Saving tab at the top of this page) you can see the whole sub-board and note that almost every thread is like yours, if this is a private ticket. You can then see previews of the debt collector letters that you will be ignoring, on the sticky thread at the top of the resulting list of threads - read 'PPC letters/threats, what to expect'.

Also watch this excerpt from Watchdog last month where their legal expert told people exactly how seriously to take any private parking charge notice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

But if this is a Council ticket then please post again and tell us whether you've had a Notice to Owner yet or just the Council rejection. If it's Council then you can appeal this as you did have a ticket and a certified solicitor's copy is as good as an original.

Adjudicators have allowed appeals like this before, where the other info scratched off is sufficient to communicate the date without it being possible to relate to any other date. What I mean is, if you scratched off for example, the day and date (say Saturday15th May) but not the year, then it can only relate to that day, not last year or next year as 15th May would not have fallen on the same weekday last year. Hope that makes sense, as I say, Adjudicators have taken this favourable view before so fight it all the way.

What was the offence given as on the PCN (exact wording) and can you post up a copy of the front & back of the PCN -only if it's a Council one - there may be other flaws and points of appeal.

peter_the_piper

""Why on earth can't a certified copy be enough for these people? ""
What and miss out on the chance of conning you out of a good few notes?
Ditto what the two posters above have said.

Coblcris

If it is a Private Parking Company, which I strongly suspect it is, they ask for the original ticket so that they can deprive you of that evidence.

Never ever return originals. Of course in the case of a Private Parking Company the correct course of action is very simple indeed.

Nick_R

Hi, Sorry have been offline!

Yep, it's the council... They say that they need the original for 'auditing purposes' as they are a 'public body'. Smells a bit rotten to me, as the copy was certified!

Who should I complain to now, and do you reckon it's worth the risk of doubling the fine?

I definately have another certified copy of the scratch card, and hotel itemised invoice and receipt showing that I bought the scratch cards (I had three for a stag party long weekend) the day before the ticket was issued.

taffy056

Nick_R wrote: »

Yep, it's the council... They say that they need the original for 'auditing purposes' as they are a 'public body'. Smells a bit rotten to me, as the copy was certified!

You are a 100% sure of this? does it have all the council logos on it? I think the standard advice here is to scan the ticket front and back, and upload it to tinypic, deleting your personal details from it.

Coblcris

Certified Copies are permissible.

We need to see it.

Coupon-mad

Yep, we would need to see a scan of the front & back of the PCN (all small print and all dates but no ID details). We need to know what contravention has been alleged on that PCN.

Have you had a rejection letter yet, or a Notice to Owner? If so then post them here (ID blanked).

Also can you get pics of the bay, including the termination lines at both ends, plus a pic of the sign? If you are not nearby then could you find it on GoogleStreetView and link it here (not great though as GSV is out of date).

Nick_R

Well I didn't scan the PCN, and as my entire file has been misplaced, I don't have it either...

All I have is a certified copy of the scratch card, the invoice from the hotel clearly showing the date of purchase, and the scratch ticket itself.

I'll scan in a copy at work tomorrow for you, deleting all the personal info.

I was parked opposite the Jurys Inn Hotel in Milton Keynes, in a car park off the road, which the hotel itself said to park in when they sold me the scratch ticket.

I have sent off my appeal against the first 'rejection' (I take it as a rejection anyway, as I can't supply the original for 'auditting purposes').

I'll keep you posted, but it's just crazy that they won't take the word of my solicitor either!

Nick

Nick_R

RE - taffy056, yep they said they needed the original for auditting purposes (both in writing and over the phone). They said that it's because the year wasn't scratched off, just the day and month. I pointed out that they could clearly match the scratch-ticket's serial number to the hotel, but alas, common sense does not prevail.