Do you use a livery?

lostinrates

trudij wrote: »

I am thinking about moving my horse in the autumn, because the lady I share with does my head in.(though I probably do hers in too with my wanting to worm when the count says they need it, and my wanting the field poo picked as often as possible,and my thinking that once a week isnt enough to check on your horse...) Its a very long story, which would turn into a rant and a half if I started, so I wont.... suffice to say that I wish I could go back where I was before I moved away, I could keep myself to myself, all the chores were shared between me and my friend,and it was just perfect....

LIR, can mine move to yours?? It sounds perfect and what Id love to find round here !!!!

lol, I wish I were moving that wee bit closer to you

orlao

LiR

Forget straw (especially at £2 a bale :eek:) look at wood pellet bedding - I'm a convert to it, lovely and comfortable for the horses especially on rubber matting but can be used on concrete, 5 minutes to muck out - time is money after all! - low dust, tiny muck heap and cheap!!!

It requires a bit of an open mind until you get your head around it but it does work especially for very wet mucky horses.

http://www.liverpoolwoodpellets.co.uk/horsebedding.html

It's also been extensively discussed on HHO....

lostinrates

orlao wrote: »

LiR

Forget straw (especially at £2 a bale :eek:) look at wood pellet bedding - I'm a convert to it, lovely and comfortable for the horses especially on rubber matting but can be used on concrete, 5 minutes to muck out - time is money after all! - low dust, tiny muck heap and cheap!!!

It requires a bit of an open mind until you get your head around it but it does work especially for very wet mucky horses.

http://www.liverpoolwoodpellets.co.uk/horsebedding.html

It's also been extensively discussed on HHO....

Have to admit I'm actually a hemp fan....and I've also heard good things about the redbed stuff. Five mins to muck out is good :T:T. but very few people paying for full livery will accept a semi deep bed, even if its the better option for their horse as regards dust etc. I'm guessing to be so quick this is what this is? A full daily dig out with an absorbent bed seems to take me longer to dig out than shavings/straw.....and makes for nasty beds....I love the absorbent beds if working how they should!

I'd love to see a woodpellet bed in action though...no one I know locally uses it for me to have a look/ go at mucking out. We're really lucky that we're building stables in a barn, from scratch. Our smallest boxes will be bigger than 15 ft square, more bedding initially, but cleaner to keep. Thinking about bedding options now, because deciding on flooring options....if it weren't for liveries I'd go for poured rubber under different things for different horses, (mine might suit the wood) but don't want to do poured rubber for anything going in with road nails/studs. For obvious reasons.

orlao

lostinrates wrote: »

best MONEY maker is diy. .

I must admit I'm surprised by that. I looked at a yard a few years ago and while I didn't go into any deep details (knew it wouldn't be viable tbh) I found what you could reasonably charge for DIY - remembering that you would be undercut by the bad yards - was £25pw which with 16 stables to rent would just cover the fixed costs - morgage (maybe!) insurances, elec, water , rates etc leaving nothing for repairs, salaries, operating capital etc. Now for good part/full livery I could have charged £90/£150pw and while it would have certainly paid a few more bills it still wouldn't have made a "real" profit even in years 3 - 5 - it was also too reliant on one person - me - staying healthy, uninjured and not needing a break as it would never have supported a second salary.

With another 20 stables it might have been a goer but pp was never going to be granted, at least not in the next 20 years.

The people who eventually bought it didn't need a morgage so that was 4k a month saved but even they are struggling after last winter and lets just say that corners were severely cut after Decembers bad weather.......

Post on HHO and see if anybody locally uses it - they do tend to be evangelical about it and happy to show if off ! Yes, it is sort of semi deep litter but not like hemp or shavings as the pellets expand to soak up any pee so they just go fluffy and any really wet patches stay in one place and are just scooped out daily. It is very very odd to stand with a hose pipe watering a bed but it works! I've never used liquid rubber but I know the EVA mats will survive shoes and road nails and I would decapitate anyone who put a studded horse in a stable for more than 3 minutes......

lostinrates

orlao wrote: »

I must admit I'm surprised by that. I looked at a yard a few years ago and while I didn't go into any deep details (knew it wouldn't be viable tbh) I found what you could reasonably charge for DIY - remembering that you would be undercut by the bad yards - was £25pw which with 16 stables to rent would just cover the fixed costs - morgage (maybe!) insurances, elec, water , rates etc leaving nothing for repairs, salaries, operating capital etc. Now for good part/full livery I could have charged £90/£150pw and while it would have certainly paid a few more bills it still wouldn't have made a "real" profit even in years 3 - 5 - it was also too reliant on one person - me - staying healthy, uninjured and not needing a break as it would never have supported a second salary.

With another 20 stables it might have been a goer but pp was never going to be granted, at least not in the next 20 years.

The people who eventually bought it didn't need a morgage so that was 4k a month saved but even they are struggling after last winter and lets just say that corners were severely cut after Decembers bad weather.......

But if you look at the very rough break down I gave for full at the sort of prices given here in this thread and obviously, that I see myself locally, you see you have the same issue.....but no labour costs and often YOs don't even take insurance to handle the horses...as they never plan to, liveries helping each other out for holidays etc. Its not a route I'm going down, because I have horses too, and for them if nothing else, I want the land well managed and the yard/horses to be happy and well. I am also, like many people, lucky in that I don't have to make money and can plough any profit back into the yard: which is very bad for the industry. But I am a qualified professional with experience and competition history etc, unlike many YOs in the same position. f course serious competition livery with training etc is a different game again (training charges, lesson charges etc..) but I have NO desire to do that either That's my choice, and fair that I don't make the profit from it following that decision.

lostinrates

orlao wrote: »

Post on HHO and see if anybody locally uses it - they do tend to be evangelical about it and happy to show if off ! Yes, it is sort of semi deep litter but not like hemp or shavings as the pellets expand to soak up any pee so they just go fluffy and any really wet patches stay in one place and are just scooped out daily. It is very very odd to stand with a hose pipe watering a bed but it works! I've never used liquid rubber but I know the EVA mats will survive shoes and road nails and I would decapitate anyone who put a studded horse in a stable for more than 3 minutes......

Thanks for that! sounds worth looking into. I've watered beds before....with aubiose one was meant too...

liquid rubber has serious advantages over mats f you know you are not going to move yards.....but not good for anyone in livery IMO, risk of moving, or not moving to their own yard with a very long term view. There are few jobs worse than lifting mats, and serious risks for horse's breathing in a stinky environment, both of which poured rubber avoids. My short term compromise will be to put it in my big foaling boxes when they are built.

We bought two big EVA mats last year...I hate them (and agreed about the studs....but it doesn't do well to decapitate clients. On full livery. ) better to try and catch them when they come in to remind them about studs )

orlao

lostinrates wrote: »

We bought two big EVA mats last year...I hate them (and agreed about the studs....but it doesn't do well to decapitate clients. On full livery. ) better to try and catch them when they come in to remind them about studs )

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:I knew there was another reason why I shouldn't run a yard :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

See your point about the EVA mats though.

BTW, the pellets are exactly the same as the wood pellet cat litter, if you get bored one day you could buy a small bag of the CL and play with water to make a mini bed. Or maybe LWP would send you a sample?

Moody_Mare

I have 2 horses on DIY livery in a very proffesional approved yard. We are £50 pounds a week each but for that you get hay, auto water and use of all the facilities with excellent security. The yard cleans the fields and checks the fencing ect. We have a good worming programme and all horses must be insured and vaccinated to be kept on the yard and we have always had contracts.

It is up to the owner with regards to bedding, I use wood pellets as the are highly abdorbent (turns into saw dust) I go through a 4 bags a week for the 2 of them at £5 a bag, where as shavings are £9 per a bag and I can get through as many as 6 a week:eek: one horse has always wee'd for Britian. I was a bit sceptical at first but I now love them, I remove all wet & dung daily and they are on rubbing matter and I keep the beds quite deep with banks.

For owners who want there horses tuned out/in or rugs changed fed ect there is a small daily additional charge. This system has been working for many years and most yards in the area have now adopted this system. It can be costly if you want the yard to do a lot of the daily mundane tasks but like me I find it a valuable back up it I cannot get there dure to work, illness ect. The same DIY rate is charged in the summer when they are on grass to offset the winter costs. Again all the yards around here do this even for horses on full livery. If you were very lucky with a horse on full livery they may charge you grass livery in the summer but with a hefty retainer for your stable. I can see why this is done, to stop folk appearing near the end of the winter taking a box then getting a vastly reduced price in the summer with great facilities and then leaving before the winter starts gain. At the end of the day the stables are still getting rated & mantained in the summer.

I agree that full livery varies greatly nowadays but as a rule (and I have worked for many years in the industry) Full livery is basic i.e Mucked out daily, turned in/out, rugs changed, horses hayed & watered. Hard feed fed but supplied by horse owner and the yard holds horses for farriers and vets, 1 bale of shavings included. Vary far away from traditional full livery but that is the way the market has gone. I do know of one yard that does proper full livery including all of the above plus grooming, tack cleaning and hard feed provided but this costs £140 per week and a lot more if the horse is to be ridden.

orlao

Moody Mare

If you look at the LWP website the wood pellets work out a lot cheaper if you can buy in bulk they work out about £2 per 10kg - and 100kg fit on a pallet so don't take up much space....