Getting an injunction

PaulS43

In 2006 I fell into arrears with Sainsbury's over a credit card. Cutting a long story short, they bombarded me with phone calls because THEY said at the time I wasn't paying enough (though I was paying something). Eventually, after the 1st batch of harassing calls I simply stopped paying - then we had an exchange of letters in which I plainly told them that I would only pay what I could afford and wouldn't pay anything any more unless the calls were curtailed....

There was a break in these calls, but they started up again. I went and bought a phone recorder and have recordings of around 50 calls with me telling them I was recording - and asking them to stop. They didn't stop the calls until I had my numbers changed. And again, when they discovered my newly changed number, I had the number changed again....

At the end of 2006 another exchange of letters in which I told them to take me to court. They eventually sold the debt to a debt collector. More letters when they appeared out of the blue (but no phone calls). I explained why I'd stopped paying and asked the debt collector's solicitor to instigate the proceedings because I am quite happy to take the CD of the recordings to be played at the County Court....

All quiet on the western front. No more correspondence. Until last month. I wrote back after the 1st letter at the beginning of May, enclosing a copy of my letter to their solicitor from October 2008, stating that nothing has changed on my part and inviting them to get on with it - plainly stating that I will not give them a penny without the order of a court and pointing out that they collectively (that is Sainsbury's, their debt collection companies, their solicitors, the company they sold the debt to [Lewis, by the way]) ll seem to do a great deal of telling me how I am going to be deported / sequestrated / fiscally castrated, etc, etc, etc - yet none of them appear to fancy issuing the papers to get on with it.

I have now had ANOTHER 2 letters telling me that if I don't pay they will begin proceedings.

Can someone give me an idea about what I actually need to do to go to the courthouse myself and get an injunction to stop these people harassing me like this. The whole shebang is like a group of wannabe mafiosa who in simplistic terms like to scream, holler and shout about how the courts are going to mangle me as a tactic to try to get me on the phone and / or paying them (letters which say things like "You must give us your phone number" or "You must ring an 0844 {premium rate} phone number").

They know they were very naughty in making those calls, else they'd have taken me to court, wouldn't they? But the whole thing is really annoying - like the harassment laws just don't matter.

So any help on what I need to do, what it will cost (can I get money off). Can I sue THEM for this and what was / is this worth with all the phone calls and letters with these empty threats?

Much appreciated


Paul S43

Tixy

You want to sue them for trying to collect a debt that you owe to them??

If you owe the money and the debt is clearly not statute barred then you cannot stop them sending letters asking you to pay.
And they can take you to court anytime they want to - up to 6years from when you last acknowledged that you owe the money.

They have obviously now stopped the calls - if they start up again then send the template letter insisting that the calls stop and if they do not stop calling them complain to the OFT.

DVardysShadow

Yes of course you can sue them. You can sue anyone for anything - it is a free country.

But at the end of the day, you should only sue when you are likely to win. As you are now just receiving letters, I would count the level of harassment as trivial.

If you ultimately are taken to court, please understand that it will be for debt and your CD will most probably not be allowed as evidence - if the judge does allow any of it to be played, he will only do this to humour you if he has a short day - and it will not be accepted as a defence against your debt.

You are being foolish by not paying anything. If it goes to court you will have extra costs. Your best bet now is to play on the picture you have painted of yourself as a totally awkward person and get someone to play the role of carer to seek to negotiate a full and final settlement with the Debt Collector, which may be a favourably low percentage.

PaulS43

DVardysShadow wrote: »

Yes of course you can sue them. You can sue anyone for anything - it is a free country.

But at the end of the day, you should only sue when you are likely to win. As you are now just receiving letters, I would count the level of harassment as trivial.

If you ultimately are taken to court, please understand that it will be for debt and your CD will most probably not be allowed as evidence - if the judge does allow any of it to be played, he will only do this to humour you if he has a short day - and it will not be accepted as a defence against your debt.

You are being foolish by not paying anything. If it goes to court you will have extra costs. Your best bet now is to play on the picture you have painted of yourself as a totally awkward person and get someone to play the role of carer to seek to negotiate a full and final settlement with the Debt Collector, which may be a favourably low percentage.

I may not have explained myself properly in the first place but straight to the point I didn't come on here to be on the receiving end of thinly veiled personally patronising clap trap from people who don't know me at all. You may think I am awkward - that is your prerogative to derive that from how I explained the problem... To tell me to get a friend to negotiate with me while portraying myself as someone who has a screw loose is frankly deeply offensive.

I had HUNDREDS of phone calls back in 2006 and had to change my land line twice to get it stopped. I was driven to despair at the time, almost suicidal - and it is my view that the passage of time does not excuse or somehow exonerate Sainsbury's / HBOS from behaving in such a reprehensible, ILLEGAL way.

Me approaching them to discuss this will give them a get-out clause and somehow make this behaviour retrospectively excuseable. For the record:I have paid ALL of my other creditors amounts I can afford ever since I got into financial trouble. Seeing as you think I'm awkward, perhaps you can tell me why Sainsbury's should have tried to behave like this and why anyone should just go belly up, NOT "be awkward" and effectively say that it's totally okay for these people to behave like that.... or it was a long time ago????

Like I say - for all of the other creditors I owe and owed money to (some I have cleared in full as time as gone on), I have paid without suffering phone call after phone call after phone call after phone call, with their people telling me I was lying about my gas bill, water bill, electric bill, poll-tax, petrol needed to get to work, harasing my 21 year old (now 25 yo) daughter when she told them on them ringing here that I wasn't in. Being told I SHOULD borrow the money to pay them from friends or relatives and all the other crap!!!

I asked as long ago as 2006 to have the matter determined in court. Why have they bottled it? What I want off of Sainsbury's is a full, UNRESERVED apology for CRIMINALLY abusing my telephone service and driving me mad with unwelcome, unwarranted, disproportionate waves of patronising glib phone calls. When I get that, I will do what is morally appropriate and think about reaching an agreement with them to pay what I can afford.

But they don't think what they did was wrong which is why they won't apologise. So let's have it in court then. They told me often enough if I didn't do as I was told then I'd be taken to court and get castrated / sent to Australia / end up homeless, etc, etc, etc. When I called their bluff, I just got more phone offensive, intrusive calls. And I have dug in - because I am awkward and I WILL NOT give in to this sort of wannabe Mafiosa bullying!

They obviously don't fancy their chances at court because if it was so obviously an open and shut case, we'd have gone there 4 YEARS ago, wouldn't we?

If they don't fancy court (because perhaps THEY think they'll lose more than they'll gain) then why should I have to put up with a stream of empty threatening letters?

So my question is how can I get an injunction to stop this behaviour? I have written to them to ask them to use the courts to resolve the dispute and protect me from their usery & other costs and charges thatthey've just slapped on which is why the courts are there?

Or should we just dispense with the law completely? They obviously think that a couple of hundred phone calls over 10 weeks is reasonable???

Leixlip1

Not sure what you man by "get money off". If you want to take Injunction proceedings you will need to pay the appropriate fees to the Court and any legal representation you have and also be prepared to pay costs if you lose to those you were trying to obtain an Injunction against. You should visit your local court and talk to staff there about costs etc for issuing proceedings if that's what you really want to do.
Injunctions are not simple to obtain, I know this from my professional background, so you need to make sure you have the funds to take such an action & can afford to lose.
If you have had threats about legal action in the past and nothing has happened then accept that nothing may never happen and file your letters; if they do take legal action then you will have your day in court. You are in charge of your own emotions not them.

Tixy

You don't need an injunction to stop their behaviour.
All you need to do is send a letter insisting they stop calling you (under OFT guidelines) and to remove your phone number from their files (under the DPA) and those calls will stop.
Just asking them on a call to stop calling will not action it, but a letter will.

If they cease after this then obviously you can complain to the relevant bodies. Thats is what they are there for, and that is what a court would expect you to do.

But aside from that sending letters to you is fine. You owe the money and they are perfectly entitled to write to ask you to pay it.

Of course you cannot insist they take you to court, that is up to them to decide whether it is worthwhile.

If you want to take them to court go for it, but I think a judge might suggest you should have followed other avenues first.

Did you inform the callers every time that you were recording their calls?

PaulS43

Tixy wrote: »

You don't need an injunction to stop their behaviour.
All you need to do is send a letter insisting they stop calling you (under OFT guidelines) and to remove your phone number from their files (under the DPA) and those calls will stop.
Just asking them on a call to stop calling will not action it, but a letter will.

If they cease after this then obviously you can complain to the relevant bodies. Thats is what they are there for, and that is what a court would expect you to do.

But aside from that sending letters to you is fine. You owe the money and they are perfectly entitled to write to ask you to pay it.

Of course you cannot insist they take you to court, that is up to them to decide whether it is worthwhile.

If you want to take them to court go for it, but I think a judge might suggest you should have followed other avenues first.

Did you inform the callers every time that you were recording their calls?

I has written to Sainsbury's to insist no more calls. When I did so I told them in writing I was recording their calls. I also told the callers in SOME of the calls they carried on making I was recording their calls.

When I wrote to insist "no more calls" I wrote "If you continue to make these intrusive calls against my wishes, then by your action in doing so YOU AGREE to compensate me at the rate of £100 per call to retrospectively apply to all the calls made".... And they ignored that and kept calling me. And the advice from the police where I went next was to have my number changed (meaning that the police were busy with speed cameras, no doubt, making their few bob and too busy to enforce the Protection from Harassment Act 1997).

Surely the Court is there to protect all of us from this? I stopped paying because Sainsbury's took it upon themselves to fix something that wasn't broken and demand that I made them a preferential creditor over and above the other people I owed money to. Unlike every one else, they choose to hammer me with punitive charges, late fees' letter fees, etc, etc, etc. Now I didn't deny I owed them money - and I wouldn't expect them to be happy that they'd not got what I'd agreed to out of me BUT them and ONLY THEM decided to behave like this.

I owed MBNA almost nearly twice as much? I had 2 accounts with Egg which were (and still are effectively) 'in arrears' along with a Barclaycard and other debts elsewhere. No one understandably wanted to tell me what a wonderful chap I am but only one firm went into a*s*h*l* mode and did this.

And that is why I said I'd pay no more. Why? If one can only afford £10 a week but they state they want £100+ and because they think somehow it's more important that THEY get their money back and when they don't get what they want they then add £75 as 'late payment charges' & other 'fines' then why pay at all?????

A court would say, would it not "You owe £X {even with costs} that's now £Y and you will pay £Z back per week) rather than their You owed us £X, you paid us £40 which isn't enough so we'll add £100 or so back!!!!!!

I asked for court because I don't believe that a court would sanction this at all.... And that's when I had the plague of phone calls.

What are they frightened of?

10past6

PaulS43 wrote: »

So any help on what I need to do

Yes, re read your original post firstly, only then may you realise what a muppet you're being.

There's a hugggggggggggggggge difference between those who can't pay, and those who refuse to pay, you've refused to pay, the court system have little time for those who refuse to pay!!

helsee

i hope you dont take this the wrong way OP, my advice is well intentioned.

This is a debt you acknowledge and i assume you wish to repay, settle and draw a line under.

Make a realistic repayment offer. Send a list of incomings and outgoings inorder that they (who ever has the debt now) can see that it is realistic. Then pay it, each month, without fail wether they accept it or not.To stop paying is silly....two rights dont make a wrong.

This has probably been a bit of a cycle...you dont pay...they ring you more to try and get payment....you get crosser because they are calling...and so it goes on.

In the meantime write to them firmly but politely telling them you wish only to communicate with them in writing.

good luck.

DVardysShadow

PaulS43 wrote: »

I may not have explained myself properly in the first place but straight to the point I didn't come on here to be on the receiving end of thinly veiled personally patronising clap trap from people who don't know me at all. You may think I am awkward - that is your prerogative to derive that from how I explained the problem... To tell me to get a friend to negotiate with me while portraying myself as someone who has a screw loose is frankly deeply offensive.

I had HUNDREDS of phone calls back in 2006 and had to change my land line twice to get it stopped. I was driven to despair at the time, almost suicidal - and it is my view that the passage of time does not excuse or somehow exonerate Sainsbury's / HBOS from behaving in such a reprehensible, ILLEGAL way.

Me approaching them to discuss this will give them a get-out clause and somehow make this behaviour retrospectively excuseable. For the record:I have paid ALL of my other creditors amounts I can afford ever since I got into financial trouble. Seeing as you think I'm awkward, perhaps you can tell me why Sainsbury's should have tried to behave like this and why anyone should just go belly up, NOT "be awkward" and effectively say that it's totally okay for these people to behave like that.... or it was a long time ago????

Like I say - for all of the other creditors I owe and owed money to (some I have cleared in full as time as gone on), I have paid without suffering phone call after phone call after phone call after phone call, with their people telling me I was lying about my gas bill, water bill, electric bill, poll-tax, petrol needed to get to work, harasing my 21 year old (now 25 yo) daughter when she told them on them ringing here that I wasn't in. Being told I SHOULD borrow the money to pay them from friends or relatives and all the other crap!!!

I asked as long ago as 2006 to have the matter determined in court. Why have they bottled it? What I want off of Sainsbury's is a full, UNRESERVED apology for CRIMINALLY abusing my telephone service and driving me mad with unwelcome, unwarranted, disproportionate waves of patronising glib phone calls. When I get that, I will do what is morally appropriate and think about reaching an agreement with them to pay what I can afford.

But they don't think what they did was wrong which is why they won't apologise. So let's have it in court then. They told me often enough if I didn't do as I was told then I'd be taken to court and get castrated / sent to Australia / end up homeless, etc, etc, etc. When I called their bluff, I just got more phone offensive, intrusive calls. And I have dug in - because I am awkward and I WILL NOT give in to this sort of wannabe Mafiosa bullying!

They obviously don't fancy their chances at court because if it was so obviously an open and shut case, we'd have gone there 4 YEARS ago, wouldn't we?

If they don't fancy court (because perhaps THEY think they'll lose more than they'll gain) then why should I have to put up with a stream of empty threatening letters?

So my question is how can I get an injunction to stop this behaviour? I have written to them to ask them to use the courts to resolve the dispute and protect me from their usery & other costs and charges thatthey've just slapped on which is why the courts are there?

Or should we just dispense with the law completely? They obviously think that a couple of hundred phone calls over 10 weeks is reasonable???

Well, whatever. You can go off on one about Sainsbuy's "CRIMINALLY abusing my telephone service" - and having been the recipient of 3 automated calls from another outfit, without any money owing, I can fully see where you are coming from. But while you owe money, Sainsbury's are not going to take a lot of notice, because, rightly or wrongly, they probably have you down as 'won't pay' rather than 'can't pay'. And the truth of the matter is that you have locked this into a Mexican standoff by saying you won't pay while they do what they do.

When I say get a friend to pose as a carer, I am deadly serious. You appear to have created such an awkward persona [despite your base case being rather weak], that it would probably reduce a F%F settlement by 10%. Your cussedness is worth money! And this site is about money saving.

redpete

PaulS43 wrote: »

I stopped paying because Sainsbury's took it upon themselves to fix something that wasn't broken...

From their point of view it was broken...

In 2006 I fell into arrears with Sainsbury's over a credit card.

I plainly told them that I would only pay what I could afford and wouldn't pay anything any more unless the calls were curtailed....

And now they have stopped the calls you've decided you won't pay until they apologise. It certainly sounds like they have behaved badly over this in their attempts to get the money you owe them, but there's no dispute that you do owe them the money. They have stopped the harassment that was upsetting you and yet you still want an injunction to stop them writing letters - I don't get it.

"You must ring an 0844 {premium rate} phone number"

Up to 5p per minute from a land-line, so not premium rate.