Visiting USA with a criminal record

mrmichaelf

dzug1 wrote: »

Because they will not give you an answer, correct or otherwise. They will not commit themselve over the phone to someone who for all they know is telling only part of the story. They will tell you to apply for a visa regardless of whether your crime is moral turpitude or not. They then decide on the basis of your written application whether it was or not.

And if the crime is not moral turpitude you are NOT lying on the form - you are telling the truth

Makes sense.
My main worry is if (a big if) they did find out at immigration that I did have a criminal record, are they themselves qualified enough to know whether my crime is of moral turpitude or not?

dzug1

mrmichaelf wrote: »

But, harrassment isn't a moral turpitude crime, so therefore I wouldn't be lying.
And even if it was and I "lied", they would only find out if I told them, if they do not have access to our criminal records.

From reading up, appyling for a Visa, in most cases you simply wont be accepted. I read of someone with a minor conviction of drunk and disorderly being refused a visa and never able to travel to the USA again!

Whilst they do not have DIRECT access to our criminal records, they can by going through channels get access to all the information they can justify a need for. Obviously not instantaneously.

At the point of entry they have access to a 'hit list' of 'criminals' and others of interest to the authorities. What you have to do to get on that list is a bit ill defined but I seriously doubt if it is everyone in the UK who has ever been convicted of any crime.

And what you read about the drunk and disorderly guy sounds suspicious - I don't believe it, not in the way it's reported anyway. D/D is not moral turpitude for a start. More likely he was refused as a drug abuser (ie alcoholic). He's not barred for life - after a lengthy interval he can apply again and if he satisfies their doctor that he's rehabilitated he will get a visa. Mind you that could be 10 years or so....

And from your original post - yes the immigration guys will be clued up on moral turpitude. If they are uncertain their bosses will have a better grasp. And it would be the boss who made the ultimate decision on entry - not the front line guy.

mrmichaelf

dzug1 wrote: »

Whilst they do not have DIRECT access to our criminal records, they can by going through channels get access to all the information they can justify a need for. Obviously not instantaneously.

At the point of entry they have access to a 'hit list' of 'criminals' and others of interest to the authorities. What you have to do to get on that list is a bit ill defined but I seriously doubt if it is everyone in the UK who has ever been convicted of any crime.

And what you read about the drunk and disorderly guy sounds suspicious - I don't believe it. D/D is not moral turpitude for a start. More likely he was refused as a drug abuser (ie alcoholic). He's not barred for life - after a lengthy interval he can apply again and if he satisfies their doctor that he's rehabilitated he will get a visa. Mind you that could be 10 years or so....

And from your original post - yes the immigration guys will be clued up on moral turpitude. If they are uncertain their bosses will have a better grasp.

That's a massive help, thankyou.
Would my arrest of suspected tax disc theft class as moral turpitude do you know? The whole thing is very vague I must say, and you can see why people will lie on the VWP.

cooking-mama

Nobjocki wrote: »

No, Simply fill out your visa form on the plane as usual saying you don't have a criminal record.

Cant be done on the plane anymore,has to be done online at least 72hrs before travel.

dzug1

mrmichaelf wrote: »

That's a massive help, thankyou.
Would my arrest of suspected tax disc theft class as moral turpitude do you know? The whole thing is very vague I must say, and you can see why people will lie on the VWP.

Being in possession of stolen property without guilty knowledge is not moral turpitude. With guilty knowledge is.

So a difficult one - at the time of your arrest guilty knowledge would have been assumed. Subsequently it was established there was none. What you were ultimately convicted of (if you were) would have been displaying an incorrect tax disk - not moral turpitude.

Pass.

mrmichaelf

In the end, I wasn't charged with anything and the Police let it go.
I'm actually surprised harrasment isn't moral turpitude, but there we go.
I think I will answer no on the VWP then, and be confident that I am actually being truthfull.

mrmichaelf

FH_Brit wrote: »

MRMICHAEL - The US Government have not got automatic access to UK criminal recorrds but as part of your application you give them authority to check it - if you don't they will refuse you an ESTA or Visa & therefore Entry.

NOBJOKI - You obviously have not travelled to USA recently. Now the Visa Waiver Program (Filling in forms on the plane as you put it) is not the only thing required to enter the US. You MUST, in advace of travel (at least 3 days) fill in an ESTA in addition to the VWP forms.

ESTA (Electronic System for Travel Authorization) is valid for 2 years.

See here https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/esta.html?_flowExecutionKey=_c9B37D708-042B-3E72-7229-5EB10D9ECE04_k936FD896-8D45-C21D-ED03-F0C730FF8D72

MRM - why not apply for your ESTA (while it is still free!) and see if you get approved.

Other than that contact the US Embassy in London
http://www.usembassy.org.uk/

Also see UK FCO
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/north-central-america/united-states

I hope it helps

I have completed the VWP online and it came back approved.

rabidmonkey

mrmichaelf wrote: »

I would like to visit the USA next year, however I have a criminal conviction from 3 years ago for harrasment.

mrmichaelf wrote: »

Harrasment isn't listed there at all. However from previous research on the internet, it isn't classed as moral turpitude.

So so wrong.

If it was done under section 4 then it IS a crime unvolving morale turpitude. If you were done under section 1 then the chances are that its not, UNLESS there is something in the court record to suggest otherwise.

And everyone who stated the US doesn't have access to UK criminal records and just lie etc etc etc should be banned from here a) for being ignorant, and b) for suggesting to others thay should break the law.

FH_Brit wrote: »

Oh - after thought - It does not matter if you are arrested - it matters if you were CHARGED AND CONVICTED - Many are arrested and released without charge and that means you were officially not guilty (they may re-arrest later but until conviction it is irrelevant).

That is SO wrong. You just have to look at the question of the VWP / ESTA to realise why.

And the OP keeps asking the same question.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=1916349&page=2

mrmichaelf

FH_Brit wrote: »

MRMICHAEL - The US Government have not got automatic access to UK criminal recorrds but as part of your application you give them authority to check it - if you don't they will refuse you an ESTA or Visa & therefore Entry.

NOBJOKI - You obviously have not travelled to USA recently. Now the Visa Waiver Program (Filling in forms on the plane as you put it) is not the only thing required to enter the US. You MUST, in advace of travel (at least 3 days) fill in an ESTA in addition to the VWP forms.

ESTA (Electronic System for Travel Authorization) is valid for 2 years.

See here https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/esta.html?_flowExecutionKey=_c9B37D708-042B-3E72-7229-5EB10D9ECE04_k936FD896-8D45-C21D-ED03-F0C730FF8D72

MRM - why not apply for your ESTA (while it is still free!) and see if you get approved.

Other than that contact the US Embassy in London
http://www.usembassy.org.uk/

Also see UK FCO
http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/north-central-america/united-states

I hope it helps

Oh - after thought - It does not matter if you are arrested - it matters if you were CHARGED AND CONVICTED - Many are arrested and released without charge and that means you were officially not guilty (they may re-arrest later but until conviction it is irrelevant).

But the question is specifically were you arrested or convicted of crimes of moral turpitude. If the crimes were not moral turpitude then surely answering no is fine. From my research, my crimes were not moral turpitude, therefore surely answering No is not lying.

mrmichaelf

rabidmonkey wrote: »

So so wrong.

If it was done under section 4 then it IS a crime unvolving morale turpitude. If you were done under section 1 then the chances are that its not, UNLESS there is something in the court record to suggest otherwise.

And everyone who stated the US doesn't have access to UK criminal records and just lie etc etc etc should be banned from here a) for being ignorant, and b) for suggesting to others thay should break the law.




That is SO wrong. You just have to look at the question of the VWP / ESTA to realise why.

My harrasment charge is not of moral turpitude. I can 100& gurarantee you that. US law states it isn't. And that is from my own research.

Which then leads further to my point, how do immigration judge what is moral turpitude and what isn't. They wont have the ins and outs of my court case on file will they?