Eviction advice needed

N79

Great post by Jowo!

Jowo wrote: »

I believe that bailiffs will call the police if they expect or encounter resistance and that you should change the locks and ensure the property is not left unoccupied after the tenants have left. The court will tell you if the bailiffs will bring along a locksmith or if you are supposed to provide one, I can't remember.

LL needs to provide the locksmith - bailiffs will make the property secure and charge for it. Much easier to have your own locksmith available.

You also need to understand your legal requirement to look after any uncollected goods. There's a section on Landlordzone about uncollected goods.

Absolutely. It is best to allow collection on another day though so that tempers have cooled.

You should also check your options in case the tenants have the legal right to request that the possession order is set aside, I'm not really familiar with this type of action though.

This is also very important. Once the bailiffs are at the door it is too late. Be ready to fight any late applications by Ts though generally, courts do not look favourably on excuses and T would need a reason why they failed to attend the S8 hearing. Being made homeless will not stop the eviction.

Here's a summary here of the process

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/stopping_the_bailiffs


do you have a neighbour who is able to let you know if looks like they've left ahead of the bailiff's visit? You still should still not assume that you have possession back until the bailiffs have visited it as they still have the right to occupation until that happens.

If you believe they have already left then let the bailiffs know this but as JOWO says, for your own security it is probably best to let them do their stuff!

HeatherH

Thanks very much for all the info N76 and Jowo. I'll definitely pass on the information. The landlord is able to change the locks himself as he's a bit old fashioned and somewhat of a jack of all trades. He also has keys to the current (as far as we know) locks.

We intend to put items items left in the house into the garage, so even when they come to pick up their items, there is no temptation to give them any type of access to the house, even supervised. The main tenant is harmless, but her friend, that caused all the trouble in the first place, is known to the police for being a bit of a nut, and I have heard that he has had violent tendencies.

Only a couple of weeks to go, will keep everyone posted

HeatherH

Ok.... bit of a weird day. I wasn't there for the eviction, so I don't know what was said, so I can only go on what my dad (landlord) told me.

The tenant + friend, were not there when the eviction process started, but there was only todays letters and fresh food still in the fridge, so they don't think the place is abandoned. Locks were changed, and so they are now theoretically locked out. My dad said something about a penal notice and that a note had been left on the door giving them 14 days to sort out a collection of possessions.

Through this process, we have been given ALOT of conflicting information about will happen, what solicitors and bailiffs can and cannot do, and this eviction was no exception. I'm hoping my dad only misheard, but apparently he said it's not illegal for them to break back in (new one on me) and that he'd have to go back to courts if they did this. The place is a mess, junk everywhere, and it's not really possible to have someone stay there to protect the property.

Anyone know what happens now, and what to expect?

Thanks again for any advice x

BitterAndTwisted

What to expect? I think your father may be right about them trying to break back in but I doubt very much whether it would be legal if they've already been legally evicted, it will be another or rather a different offence. If they do, I'd be minded to have the police called round. Has your father received professional advice about any of this?

HeatherH

We've had a solicitor from the word go, but as I say, we've had conflicting information from a few sources. Like from here, it was said that the tenants could be forced out, according to the bailiff he thought this wasn't true. I'm open to interpretation, and taking any advice I can get, it just becomes a bit confusing when opinions don't match up lol.

It looks like it's just more waiting now. My dads going to check the property tomorrow to see if they broke in, if they have, he's going to leave them be for now and call the solicitor to see what she thinks our options are.

BitterAndTwisted

I have a feeling that should the tenants break back in your father night have to go through the whole legal process again. There was story in our local paper about a family whose home was broken into by a bunch of strangers while they were away on holiday. It took them months to regain possession.

HeatherH

That shouldn't be right though should it? otherwise it would end up being a never ending circle. Hmm, will keep posted

vikingaero

HeatherH wrote: »

That shouldn't be right though should it? otherwise it would end up being a never ending circle. Hmm, will keep posted

It's not right, but ultimately you need to decide on whether someone can stay at the property (even with camp beds and cookers) or the use of security guards or housesitters to prevent them entering again. Once they know that someone is definitely there then they lose interest and move on.

HeatherH

I hope so Viking

The place doesn't have much in a way of heating, and at the moment, because of the weather being so cold the only feasible idea we've come up with is that there is one person from my family (there's 4 of us) visiting each day to check the place over and start clearing up the place.

mostlycheerful

Hello

I’ve been reading your thread since you first started it. I’m sorry you and your dad have had such a painful stressful rigmarole to go through. Well done you and your dad and everyone else for getting as far as you have so far. This subject has impacted on me and been bothering me for some time so I have researched it to some depth. I hope the following copies of my previous posts may be of use for you to consider and will clarify your rights, the practicalities of what you can do and some of the issues arising, here copied from the thread :

Roaming gang of Lithuanian squatters snatching our homes!
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2746162

As I state below and on two of the other threads, unfortunately in England there is currently mostly a gross endemic ignorance, bad practise and wrong practise by police, lawyers, government, media and the public of the current English law and current practise by victims regarding squatting/home invasion/burglary/evicted and ex tenants/people sneaking in via previous tenants etc and an insufficiency of publicity about it all, despite Grant Shapps’ of the Ministry of Justice recent effort at publicising owners’ rights.

If you can’t house sit your property or don’t want to and the previous miscreants break in and or anyone else tries it on, be bold and, as the following information abundantly illustrates, in your scenario it is your legal right to go into your property yourself and or to raise a force of sympathetic people to act on your behalf and go in, if necessary by breaking in, and chuck them out using “reasonable force”.

Bear in mind that, if it comes to it, you also have the right of citizens’ arrest if the home invaders/burglars commit crimes such as resisting you or your representatives, fighting you, attacking you, threatening you, waving knives around at you etc. Good luck.

(1) A displaced residential occupier, a protected intending occupier or a person acting on their behalf can use reasonable force to secure entry to the property.

“A squatter is a person who lives in a property without the permission of the owner. A squatter is not a person who has defaulted on rent payments and this answer does not apply to them, see Q46 and Q47 for information about tenants.

This is a summary of some of the provisions in the Criminal Law Act 1977. It is intended to be a guide and you would be wise to seek professional advice about the exact provisions, as you could be liable for a criminal offence or be sued if you get it wrong.

Categories of individuals that are able to take reasonably direct action

• A person who lives at domestic premises and is away, perhaps on holiday, when the squatters move in is called a 'displaced residential occupier'.
• A person who is intending to live at the premises as an owner, under a leasehold agreement (but only so long as there is two years left) or most rental agreements (but not all) is called 'protected intending occupiers'.

A displaced residential occupier, a protected intending occupier or a person acting on their behalf can use reasonable force to secure entry to the property. However . . . .
before this can be done a written declaration must be obtained from a commissioner of oaths (usually certain more senior solicitors). Once this has been obtained then entry can be gained. If the squatters refuse to leave then they commit an offence and the police should be called to deal with the matter.

Any person using excessive force could leave themselves open to criminal and civil proceedings.

Outside the above provisions, a landlord/owner etc. cannot force entry into property where there are squatters whilst someone is inside. However, they can get a court order fairly easily [not according to all the victims who report that it takes months and that negligent incompetent ignorant solicitors rob them of lots of money unnecessarily into the bargain as well] and deal with the matter by that means.”

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q718.htm

(2) Repossession without a note from a commissioner of oaths

However, due to police usually saying that it’s a civil matter and refusing to act, lawful owners and residents can legally repossess their properties by simply entering them and taking them over without need for a note from a commissioner of oaths, as demonstrated in these instances :

(2.1) Squatters demand £3,000 from family to leave home
A family today told how they were locked out by squatters after leaving their north London home for three days.

The owner “climbed through the window and confronted them. They became quite aggressive and ordered me to leave.” He added: “An Englishman's home is his castle and although I'm old, I wasn't going to be bullied. I threw their stuff out of my bedroom and set up base there. They carried on smoking and drinking and inviting friends over. They acted like hooligans.” The squatters left on Monday after a five-day stay. Mr Ahmed said: “I was so angry with police. It was obvious that the back and front doors had been forced and we had all the documents to prove the house was ours.”
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...-taken-over.do

(2.2) And some more supposed police advice apparently confirming the same :

How to stop the squatters moving in: Know the rules to protect your home from intrusion
“…the police…advised me to wait until he left the property, change the locks and then make the property secure. If he broke back in, he'd be committing an offence.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/property/article-1200216/How-stop-squatters-moving-Know-rules-protect-home-intrusion.html#ixzz10G911zUA

Minister launches advice in new drive against evicting squatters
Mr Shapps published the guide weeks after a businessman was left homeless for a fortnight when 10 squatters claiming to be students invaded his £700,000 house. Connan Gupta, 40, returned from a holiday to find the squatters — believed to be Italians — at his five-bedroom home in Camberwell.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...g-squatters.do

Guide to stop squatters published online
A guide for homeowners, aimed at stopping squatters "invading" their property, has been published online.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11707517

Online guidance on squatters launched
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...d-2128308.html

But sadly the new document :

http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume...df/1762615.pdf

by Grant Shapps and the “Ministry of Justice” fails to explain that in fact current law is not applied in England and Wales.

Although the document states that :

“The police may decide to make an arrest on suspicion of an offence under Section 7 of the Criminal Law Act 1977, which says that it is an offence, subject to certain defences set out in the Act, for a person who is on residential premises as a trespasser to fail to leave having been required to so by or on behalf of a displaced residential occupier or a protected intending occupier.”

it fails to explain that actually the police universally routinely refuse to act and state that “it’s a civil matter” and that there is nothing that they can do.

The new document also states that :

“What should I do if a squatter has damaged or stolen my property?
If a squatter damages your property either whilst entering or once inside the property, they may be guilty of criminal damage. You can call the police to report this.
Similarly, if they steal items from the property, or use the utilities they may have committed a criminal offence, and you should report this to the police.”

But, as everyone knows, this is not true as “squatters” are universally allowed to break and enter in order to take possession of properties and despite breaking and entering supposedly being a criminal offence it is universal routine police policy not to prosecute this crime in the context of “squatting”. Police routinely allow criminals to engage in burglary and home invasion under the guise of “squatting” as numerous recent examples reported in media abundantly illustrate, some of which are listed with links further back on this thread and other threads here at MSE.

No, you cannot “call the police to report [that the criminals] may be guilty of criminal damage” or that they have stolen items or illegally used utilities as the police universally routinely fail to act and always state that “it’s a civil matter” and not criminal.

This untrue, misleading document will now have to be corrected with the true facts about how the laws are universally routinely not applied by the police who routinely fail to and refuse to apply them in the context of squatting :

http://www.communities.gov.uk/docume...df/1762615.pdf

For more info (and including the above) see also :


Roaming gang of Lithuanian squatters snatching our homes!
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2746162

Knife-wielding Lithuanian squatters who move in when residents go out
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...ht=lithuanians

Squatters Rights
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...uatters+rights