RyanAir Vocanic Ash Compensation

dirkz

I am in the middle of trying to claim back my accomdation and food from RyanAir after being stranded in Portugal for 7 days during the first Volcanic ash disruption. We are a family of 5, 2 adults and 3 children aged 4,6, and 8.

I am out of pocket by almost 2700 Euros and am desperate to get back this money.

I wanted to know if anyone has actually been paid out yet and if they got expnses plus the compensation under EU261.

I have just called Ryanair and been told that even though they got my Claim form on the 5th May 2010 they now have to send another claim form for me to fill out and that will take another 28 days to proccess.

It seems to me that they are tyring to delay further the payment of compensation.

Mean while my credit card company are enjoying adding intrest, can I claim that back from RyanAir ?

I do sympathise with RyanAir and the situation that it was not their fault, but the EU261 is the law that they acepted when they took my booking.

the other point is that Ryan Air could have reduced their exposure to the compensation claims by being more helpfull on the telephone when I called to ask for assistance.

We had no accomodation after our flight was cancelled and had to find our own accomodation, even though we asked for assistance from RyanAir we were told on the phone that they were doing nothing to help stranded passengers. If they had taken a more proactive stance and organised bullk accomodation then maybe the problem would have cost them less.

I also lost money on other things like mobile phone bill, as a small business owner I had to make calls to customers and I even had to buy a cheap laptop so I could work remotely, this is an extra 700 euros in telephone and laptop bills I had to pay, or my business would have gone bust.

Are RyanAir refusing to pay out the 250 Euro compensation per passenger on top of the out of pocket expenses ?
As that is suposed to cover extra out of pocket expenses like the above.

Why does RyanAir customer service not exist ?

dmg24

Your time would be much better spent completing the relevant form than moaning about something that you have not given them time to remedy.

DVardysShadow

dmg24 wrote: »

Your time would be much better spent completing the relevant form than moaning about something that you have not given them time to remedy.

Eh? They have had his form since 05 May and now they want another one! I don't think he is jumping the gun.

pinkshoes

Didn't your travel insurance cover the cost of the accommodation after the flight was cancelled?

ryanunfair

Fellow sufferers:

I too chose a refund rather than a possible re-booking seven days later, when Ryanair were due to resume flying, and have now received their email saying that I have no further claim against Ryanair. This company relies heavily on bully-boy tactics, and no doubt in this instance it will succeed in frightening away many claimants, but it is in the wrong this time.

As far as I know, Regulation 261 has not been tested in the courts, and Ryanair have chosen to apply their own interpretation which best suits their purpose; understandable, because they are faced with a huge compensation bill arising from their obligations under the Regulation. The Regulation 261 is as follows:
REGULATION (EC) No 261/2004 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 11 February 2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91

Having initially declared publicly that the company would not be paying compensation to stranded passengers, CEO Michael O’Leary said on Thursday 22 April, in an announcement on the Ryanair website entitled “RYANAIR WILL COMPLY WITH UNFAIR EU261 REGULATIONS”:
Ryanair confirmed this morning that it will comply with EU261 regulations under which EU airlines are required to reimburse the reasonable receipted expenses (as set out in EU261) of disrupted passengers. […]
Speaking today, Ryanair’s Michael O’Leary said:
“Yet the airlines are required by regulation to meet potentially unlimited expenses, in circumstances where there has been a catastrophic closure of European airspace over the past seven days,”

They have now changed their tune, saying in their email that passengers who have accepted a refund have no right to further compensation, quoting Article EU261/04; but this is only an attempt to pull the wool over our eyes. Article EU261/04 does not refer to stranded passengers who have been abandoned by the airline, but to those who because of overbooking by the airline are denied boarding a flight, despite holding a valid ticket:

“Article 4
Denied boarding
1. When an operating air carrier reasonably expects to deny boarding on a flight, it shall first call for volunteers to surrender their reservations in exchange for benefits under conditions to be agreed between the passenger concerned and the operating air carrier. Volunteers shall be assisted in accordance with Article 8, such assistance being additional to the benefits mentioned in this paragraph.
2. If an insufficient number of volunteers comes forward to allow the remaining passengers with reservations to board the flight, the operating air carrier may then deny boarding to passengers against their will.
3. If boarding is denied to passengers against their will, the operating air carrier shall immediately compensate them in accordance with Article 7 and assist them in accordance with Articles 8 and 9.”

(Note: Article 7 is headed: Right to compensation; Article 8 is: Right to reimbursement or re-routing; Article 9 is: Right to care.)

This is clearly about a situation where overbooking has occurred, and passengers are offered compensation in return for surrendering their right to travel, not where a flight is cancelled.

I am sorry this next bit may be a bit long, but it is worth examining the wording of those Articles.

Article 7
Right to compensation
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall receive compensation amounting to:
(a) EUR 250 for all flights of 1 500 kilometres or less;
(b) EUR 400 for all intra-Community flights of more than 1 500 kilometres, and for all other flights between 1 500 and 3 500 kilometres;
(c) EUR 600 for all flights not falling under (a) or (b).
In determining the distance, the basis shall be the last destination at which the denial of boarding or cancellation.

Article 8
Right to reimbursement or re-routing
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered the choice between:
(a) — reimbursement within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), of the full cost of the ticket at the price at which it was bought, for the part or parts of the journey not made, and for the part or parts already made if the flight is no longer serving any purpose in relation to the passenger's original travel plan, together with, when relevant,
— a return flight to the first point of departure, at the earliest opportunity;
(b) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at the earliest opportunity; or
(c) re-routing, under comparable transport conditions, to their final destination at a later date at the passenger's convenience, subject to availability of seats.
2. Paragraph 1(a) shall also apply to passengers whose flights form part of a package, except for the right to reimbursement where such right arises under Directive 90/314/EEC.
3. When, in the case where a town, city or region is served by several airports, an operating air carrier offers a passenger a flight to an airport alternative to that for which the booking was made, the operating air carrier shall bear the cost of transferring the passenger from that alternative airport either to that for which the booking was made, or to another close-by destination agreed with the passenger.

Article 9
Right to care
1. Where reference is made to this Article, passengers shall be offered free of charge:
(a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time;
(b) hotel accommodation in cases
— where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary,
or
— where a stay additional to that intended by the passenger becomes necessary;
(c) transport between the airport and place of accommodation (hotel or other).
2. In addition, passengers shall be offered free of charge two telephone calls, telex or fax messages, or e-mails.
3. In applying this Article, the operating air carrier shall pay particular attention to the needs of persons with reduced mobility and any persons accompanying them, as well as to the needs of unaccompanied children.

The other Article worth a look is Article 5: Cancellation

Article 5
Cancellation
1. In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:
(a) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance
with Article 8; and
(b) be offered assistance by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 9(1)(a) and 9(2), as well as, in event of rerouting when the reasonably expected time of departure of the new flight is at least the day after the departure as it was planned for the cancelled flight, the assistance specified in Article 9(1)(b) and 9(1)(c); and
(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:
(i) they are informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure; or
(ii) they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled
time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival;
or
(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
2. When passengers are informed of the cancellation, an explanation shall be given concerning possible alternative transport.
3. An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

It is obvious that in adopting their current attitude, Ryanair is in breach of many parts of Regulation 261, but it also seems clear that there will not be a satisfactory solution for all those of us who have suffered loss as a result of Ryanair’s cancellations, and their handling of the situation, characteristically ignoring their obligations under the terms of their license. Other airlines have behaved honourably, but Ryanair is different, and this affair will probably only be settled in the courts.

In my view, the refund is nothing more than a refund in respect of a service which Ryanair failed to provide. Compensation is a separate matter, and we should press for a fair settlement of our expenses. Does anyone fancy taking Ryanair to court?

(signed) Ryanunfair

note: as cityboy says, I too am not a lawyer, and the opinions above are my own. I would encourage forum readers to seek independent legal advice on the matter on which they are seeking advice and comment.

Sandoval

ryanunfair wrote: »

(signed) Ryanunfair

Ah Ryan(unf)air!

Hey I see what you did there!

Clever!

Judas

two points on the topic.

First - OP's 2700 euro bill seems unlikely to be reasonable in my view.
Two - I think ryanairs argument is that where a passenger was offered in advance a rebooking/refund there was no inconvenience caused by the flight being delayed or cancelled as it technically wasnt as the person accepted another flight/refund and that to qualify the people had to allow their flight to be cancelled/delayed and not rebook. The validity of this for me would be that yes to UK originating flights and no to those who were already out the country.

ryanunfair

Sandoval wrote: »

Ah Ryan(unf)air!

Hey I see what you did there!

Clever!

what did I do there that is clever? is this a comment on my argument? I don't know what you mean with your posting - please expand.

ryanunfair

Proc

Why does RyanAir customer service not exist ?

Wait, hold on a minute.

You probably paid about £2.50 for a flight part-way around the world and you didn't get first-class exceptional service?


TBH, I think it's a total farce that the airlines are expected to foot the cost of these bills. Could you not have taken a ferry home? I just can't fathom that your business was going to go bust, you had to run up all of these extra costs, yet you couldn't be bothered to re-arrange alternative transport. I guess you just enjoyed the extended holiday but now realise you can't afford it.

SallyForth_2

Judas wrote: »

two points on the topic.

First - OP's 2700 euro bill seems unlikely to be reasonable in my view.
.

Really? That equates to roughly e77 per day per person. There were 5 of them and it was 7 days!

Judas

SallyForth wrote: »

Really? That equates to roughly e77 per day per person. There were 5 of them and it was 7 days!

Or 385 Euros for a family a day. At this rate I can only think they chose an expensive hotel.