pay cuts and overtime at flat rate advice please

nickeynoo

I am in a firm of about 25 people, with no union.
We have been informed today that we will be getting a new contract to sign tomorrow. It will state that we either agree or disagree to taking a 10% wage cut, and any overtime will be paid at flat rate. Also days off sick will not be paid. There is no time limit on the length of the contract, the manager says he will put everything back to normal when we are in a better position but couldnt predict when that could be. If more than 4 peolple dont agree, he says we will go bust by sept. I asked about redundacies and he said he could afford them and if forced the company would go bust anyway.
I have been there 10 years. I could scrape by for a month with the cuts but after that would be very tight. Any advice please.

smoker99

nickeynoo wrote: »

Any advice please.

Yes.

Vote BNP at every opportunity.

rebeccak

In terms of the legal position you don't have to agree to the new contract but, if you don't, your employer could potentially dismiss you and re-engage you on the new contract (although they'd have to comply with the law on unfair dismissal). Also, although they may remove company sick pay under a new contract, you'd still be entitled to any Statutory Sick Pay.

The direct.gov.uk site has useful information on subjects such as changing employment contracts http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/EmploymentContractsAndConditions/DG_10028079
and your redundancy rights http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Redundancy/index.htm

If you think the company is in such serious trouble, then I think the first thing to do is start looking for another job in a more solvent firm. Due to your length of service, you should get a good redundancy payout if you were made redundant but, if the firm goes bust first, you could have a difficult time getting unpaid wages etc. It depends what state the company is really in - they could be exaggerating to get you to accept the new contracts or the situation could be more serious and you could accept the contract only for the company to go bust anyway. Do you have any way of finding out what the real situation is - or do you get an idea of how serious the problem is from the volume of work coming in?

pjread

personally I wouldn't. Absolute best, and maybe a compromise agreement (assuming you're happy to and believe they are genuine) might be to suggest not a permanent 'new contract' but something clearly stated as a 'temporary agreement/amendment to terms' that says it's subject to review after 2-3 months and if no other agreement after x months terms revert to the existing permanent terms?

although it goes very much against my personal preference, this might hold more weight if you can get others on the bandwagon...

Orville

If you all agree to sign, you will probably never have your old contract terms re-instated. After time it will become the norm and when you mention it you will probably get the ole "like it or lump it" saying leaving you in the lurch.


My advice do not sign.

highguyuk

Orville wrote: »

If you all agree to sign, you will probably never have your old contract terms re-instated. After time it will become the norm and when you mention it you will probably get the ole "like it or lump it" saying leaving you in the lurch.


My advice do not sign.

I agree with this comment, but not with the such a black/white approach as not signing.

I think agreement needs to be made between you that this is a temporary contract and your old terms and conditions of employment will resume on X date.

There is only 25 of you in the company, you all need to stick together on this. Get together, have a meeting, decide between you all what you want to do.

getmore4less

Another option is to get everyone proactive in trying to save the company.

If its going bust then they(bosses) have nothing to lose by opening up to get ideas to help save everyones jobs.

Identify the problem, is it not enough work, or problems getting paid for the work, cost going up but canot raise prices etc.

Is this pay cut the only option,

Is anyone wanting to take a part paid sebatical,
Could you all start using some holidays to reduce future liabilities.

If they reduce wages can you get reduced hours.

Get a limit on how long the cuts are for.

You could even consider employee reps if that would help.
2 people that could represent the group in the bosses don't want to deal in an open forum of 25 people.

superclan

The Law's an !!!.

My company have done exactly the same except they are in an opposite situation. Profits have improved on a yearly basis but they have still cut peoples wages. The alternative is redundancy. My position was firstly they were going to out-source my department and we had the choice of moving to the new contractor (NO TUPE, ETO was instigated) or take redundancy. After consultation they decided they would reduce our hourly rate by £2 an hour and extend our working week by 8 hours, no bank holiday payments, no sick pay for the first 3 days. As this was not a suitable alternative you could take redundancy.

I told them I did not want to accept the new contract therefore putting me up for redundancy, mine and that of a coleagues jobs have been recruited but still no notice. I have lost about £22,000 in redundancy pay and share options because I have found another job and therefore resigned my rights to any payments.

Googlewhacker

superclan wrote: »

The Law's an !!!.

My company have done exactly the same except they are in an opposite situation. Profits have improved on a yearly basis but they have still cut peoples wages. The alternative is redundancy. My position was firstly they were going to out-source my department and we had the choice of moving to the new contractor (NO TUPE, ETO was instigated) or take redundancy. After consultation they decided they would reduce our hourly rate by £2 an hour and extend our working week by 8 hours, no bank holiday payments, no sick pay for the first 3 days. As this was not a suitable alternative you could take redundancy.

I told them I did not want to accept the new contract therefore putting me up for redundancy, mine and that of a coleagues jobs have been recruited but still no notice. I have lost about £22,000 in redundancy pay and share options because I have found another job and therefore resigned my rights to any payments.

Profits as a company may have improved but your department could have been costing them money and having no worth to them hence why the outsourced it.

The law is not an !!!, you are just annoyed

superclan

Profits as a company may have improved but your department could have been costing them money and having no worth to them hence why the outsourced it.

The law is not an !!!, you are just annoyed

Googlewhacker: You obviously did not read the post correctly. They have not out-sourced (that was the original intention) they have just re-done the contracts on new T&C's and pay. The job remains the same other than extending the hours.

To effin right I am annoyed, and so are the 100 or so other people in the company that have had accept the same kind of new contract.

Googlewhacker

superclan wrote: »

Profits as a company may have improved but your department could have been costing them money and having no worth to them hence why the outsourced it.

The law is not an !!!, you are just annoyed

Googlewhacker: You obviously did not read the post correctly. They have not out-sourced (that was the original intention) they have just re-done the contracts on new T&C's and pay. The job remains the same other than extending the hours.

To effin right I am annoyed, and so are the 100 or so other people in the company that have had accept the same kind of new contract.

I did read it and the instantaneously forgot the second part so I apologise.

I take it you got some advice on this from ACAS or a union?

You department may still be losing money hence the change of contract, I doubt they are doing it for the fun of it