what to look for when buying - help!

clearingout

Hello!
I think this might be a long post so apologies in the first instance.

I am recently divorced and am in the process of purchasing a house outright (no mortgage) for myself and three young children. I am not on a great wage and have an ex who won't pay child maintenance. In other words, I can't afford to make a mistake!

I found a wonderful house a few weeks ago, had a full survey done only to realise there was no way I could go ahead with the sale. I am very disappointed - I realised it would be a 'do it upper' but not to the extent the survey indicated - it was reviewed by both an architect friend and a very friendly local builder who both advised me that unless I could get the price dropped by approx £40k, it wasn't worth it.

So I'm back out there again. I am being quite fussy about where I want to live from a schools and transport links point of view. `Narrowed down to no more than about a square mile. Everything I am going for is around 70 years old. There is no new property in the immediate area, and very little within a few miles. I realise that new property would probably answer my problems but I don't like it as a general rule and it's not where I want to buy so it's out.

So, what do I look for both internally and externally to avoid me being in this position again? What questions do I ask (the last one had had a loft conversion without building regs, roof not appropriately supported, purlins in a state if that means anything to anyone! On top of that, there was concern that the lovely extension was sinking - building regs no where to be seen, and it's damp, although it didn't smell damp) on my way round? I'm not that fussy in terms of decor etc, I can see through the swirly carpets and 70s wallpaper when it appears, but is it appropriate to ask if they had a survey when they moved in and what did it bring up?

I don't have any male family locally to help me with recognising simple things (I have no idea - my first port of call once moved is a DIY course at the local college, I think!) and have to say, all my friends are as daft as me when it comes to these things. How horribly embaressing as a woman who considers herself independent! Oh well, lessons learnt, I guess! I have found a great builder, however, who has come recommended on several sides and who has been an enormous help with the other property. He is willing to look if I want - I just don't know what I want him to look at!!!

Any help would be much appreciated.

poppysarah

Find someone male/female who is observant and take them with you.

Sniff! It's important to look out for lots of airfresheners which indicate they're hiding a smell... and that smell could be damp or rot.

The first one you mentioned - would they not drop the price at all?

A full survey uncovers more than you'd probably need to know about. Is someone living in it now?

clearingout

thanks for that - I will be taking either my mum or a friend on all future viewings as I admit I did this one alone and was bowled over by the size for money (I have three growing boys so the extra space for money really meant something to me - that'll teach me!).

There is no one living in the house at the moment - it is an inheritence situation. three children selling after dad died recently. It is quite clear the house hasn't been touched decoratively for about 30 years, if not more. Very stuck in the 70s! It is being rewired but I had two builders quote me on other work and the surveyor both point out that the job wasn't being done properly in their view...I had budgeted for internal decoration and the odd cracked roof tile or broken drain pipe but it just feels like it's going to be a money pit! So I have decided not to go down the road of asking the vendors to reduce by £40k and just find something else (there is plenty on the market, spoilt for choice really, I just wanted this one 'cos I could make it my own).

Doozergirl

If the house has 70s swirly carpets then you have to consider; if they couldn't be bothered to replace the carpet which is relatively cheap in all the things that need doing over the course of 30-40 years on a house, then what else hasn't been done? Old wallpaper in an old house and it's likely that the plaster will come off with the wallpaper.

A well maintained house looks well maintained. Now there are exceptions where relatives have rewired and replaced windows etc whilst the person living there is happy with the style they chose 40 years ago but they are an exception, not a rule.

A house that needs a bit of doing up of pretty things like kitchens and bathrooms and not much else would have either been built or fully renovated itself about 20 years ago, no longer.

No matter what you think needs doing, there will always be something else. If you can't afford to make a mistake then I would seriously look at a newer build or something which someone else has already done fairly recently which you can update to suit taste over time. If you are working within one square mile, you may have to appreciate that finding the right house at the right price is likely to take longer than you might hope for.

Person_one

I would never be put off by swirly carpets or old fashioned decor, simply because I know so many people who either still like them, or aren't really bothered by what the house looks like as long as it is clean and functioning. Aesthetics just don't matter to a surprising number of people.

poppysarah

Don't be afraid to take notes - I've got a checklist somewhere of everything to look at in a room
(from skirting board, door and surround, window, ceiling, sockets (count 'em), light fittings and switches, flooring, windowsill, etc)

apply it to every room and you can start to notice stuff that indicates problems.


Look at fuses, gas meter, under kitchen sink etc

Prudent

I have been in a similar situation. When my marriage split up I took on a dated 1970s house that needed a lot of work. I had no DIY skills and no male relatives in the area.

I had to move quickly (long and not very pleasant story) and only ever saw the house in the dark before I purchased! It was November and housing were selling quickly then. I couldn't get away from work to view it in the light. However it was the only house on the market that I could afford in an area I wanted to live in.

The whole thing went through very quickly. A friend came with me when I collected the keys and neither of us have forgotten my dismay on my first tour of the empty property. The furniture has been carefully placed to hide a lot of faults.

Now I am 8 years down the line... It is a lovely home. I have developed DIY skills, worked lots of extra hours to pay for materials and labour and found a good builder. It has taken a lot of time and patience and 'putting up' with a poor kitchen, bathroom etc for many years. It hasn't been easy as a single mum, but I have no regrets. My daughter is now older and appreciates the work that has gone into to giving her a nice home in a nice area. I love my home too... and best of all its my own achievement.

googler

Prudent wrote: »

I had to move quickly (long and not very pleasant story) and only ever saw the house in the dark before I purchased! It was November and housing were selling quickly then. I couldn't get away from work to view it in the light. However it was the only house on the market that I could afford in an area I wanted to live in.

The whole thing went through very quickly. A friend came with me when I collected the keys and neither of us have forgotten my dismay on my first tour of the empty property. The furniture has been carefully placed to hide a lot of faults.

Regardless of whether you view a house in the daylight or the dark, you should carry a big, bright torch. Always.

G_M

You need a good checklist of obvious things to look for/ask when you view. Could your builder friend or architect help you prepare one? Start outside and look top to bottom. Does the roof look straight along the ridge? Does it sag anywhere? Tiles new & neat, or old, cracked or missing? Guttering straight and in place? Pointing in good/poor condition (that's the cement between the bricks!). etc etc.
Then a similar list for inside in each room. Plus general things like: fuse box new style or old? electric switches /plugs old fashioned (indicates wiring might be old/need replacing). Boiler ....
And with extensions/conversions: ask to see the planning permission AND building Regs (or visit the local council planning dept and ask - they keep records!

That should give you an early warning of major problems without forking out for a survey.

clearingout

Thanks GM. That's helpful advice - I have a checklist now (a bit too late!) and will be using it. The issue is I'm house hunting at a distance of 265 miles around work and childcare (3 kids, all under 6) so it can be difficult to get back when I need to. I am beginning to wonder if moving in with my mum for a few months and approaching as a buyer with the cash in pocket (at the minute it's not there as I'm awaiting sale of marital home, not expecting problems but until it goes through, I guess I have to assume there could be problems) is going to be the answer. Causes problems with schooling, however, as we want to live about 5 miles from my mum...

Prudent - that is a great story. I am going to speak with the estate agent about dropping the price but I'm not holding out much hope. I'm also not sure I want the hassle of it, really. I've had a tough couple of years and just want this over now!

David_Aldred

Hi Clearingout,
Treating you as a layperson in building matters and referring to your original post of what to look for as faults the first thing to recommend is that you have somebody competant to look on your behalf. The hassle with asking a Chartered Surveyor to do this for you is it will cost you an arm and a leg for every house you become interested in and if you look at several houses the costs can be staggering. So if you are struggling for money get somebody competant to look on your behalf and if what comes back initially from that person seems okay then by all means have the Chartered Surveyor look at it for peace of mind.

A friendly builder may look at it for free and if they are good they should know what to look for without being told. A step up from that is to have an electrician NICEIC / ECA registered and a Gas Safe Registered (formerly CORGI) plumber and a damp / timber / wall tie report. The damp / timber / wall tie specialist you can either have a contractor look at it for free / little money or an independent surveyor who specialises in these subjects. Advantage for the latter being they will look in more detail and at the house as a whole than the contractor and pound for pound they are the biggest hitters with regard to the condition of the property.

If you want to go down the DIY surveying route there is so much to look at it is hard to know where to begin but the following would be general issues to have in mind. This list is by no means exhaustive:

First get yourself a a second hand Protimeter damp meter off e-bay for a few pounds. They will show you how wet wood is - wood over 20-22% moisture content is at risk of dercay. They will also show areas of concern when placed on plaster walls / ceilings. What is important with this is that they show you areas of concern that you cannot see by naked eye be that timber at risk of decay or areas of possible dampness that if found cause you to look in more detail about the causes of such high readings.

Things for you to take - note book, & pens / pencil, digital camera with date stamp and zoom lense, collapsible ladders that will get you at least on top of a single storey flat roof / up into a loft, two torches (in case one fails whilst you are in a confined space), a tape measure, overhauls / wellingtons, your newly bought damp meter, a mirror for looking around confined areas with a torch, a floor saw, hammer and crowbar to lift floorboards, a few nails to put floorboards back / offcut of floorboard / 3x2" timbers in case you make a mess of lifting flooring, binnoculars to look in detail at high level. You might also want to get a pocket photo book on decay / insect attack to take with you for referral such as the ones published by the Building Research Establishment (BRE). Take a compass for orientation.

Be methodical in your survey - write down the full address including postcode / contact telephone numbers.

Using graph paper roughly sketch ground and upper rooms / cellar areas. You don't have to measure these by tape / ultrasound / laser tape unless you want to - a door is roughly 3 feet, a chimney breast 5-6 feet, kitchen units stick out 2 feet, your arms outstretched are roughly 6 feet, a pace is 3 feet / one yard - sorry metric measures are a pain in the butt and imperial for this type of thing is just so easy.

Put on the sketch the orientation of the property, which floors are timber and which are solid, mark radiators, meter cupboards, types of fires, kitchen units / appliances, bathroom suites, obstructions such as wall linings, types of floor finish. You can use this sketch to mark areas of concern / damp / decay etc.

External - use your binnoculars and look at all elevations both low and high level - this is not rocket science - look for obvious disrepair.

Chimney stacks - are they leaning / is moss / vegetation growing from them? What is the stack pointing / render looking like ?
Are there cowling fitted to the chimney pots to prevent rainwater penetration down the flues?
Are there cracked / slipped tiles / slates? Is mortar missing from hip / ridge tiles?
Beneath gutters is there moss / algae indicative of leaking gutters?
Are drain gullies blocked / do drain pipes discharge into drain gullies or simply onot paths?
Feel the back of cast iron rainwater pipes / soil stacks for corrosion.
Is the house straight simply by looking at it? Look at windows / door heads / lines of roofs ?
Has the roof been re-covered with replacement concrete tiles - if so is this causing sagging of the roof?
Ask if the house is Listed / In a Conservation Area - this could affect replacement windows / extensions / what alterations you can and cannot do etc.
Take ladders - look on flat roofs - is the felt cracked / are there blisters to the felt? If cavity walls are present is there evidence of cavity trays at roof / wall junctions and over openings.
Is external joinery decaying? Are there vents to the roof?
What does the mortar pointing look like - is it falling out / eroded?
Are there cracks to the mortar? Are there cracks to the render?
Tap the render with a metal chisel ? Are there areas that sound hollow / detached?
Are garden walls built directly into house walls? Is the adjoining property in such disrepair it is likely to affect the subject property?
Which way does the sun fall? / Wat is the orientation of the house?
Lift a manhole and ask for the w.c to be flushed to see the drain running - is the manhole free running or blocked?
Look at the paths / driveway - are they cracked? Do they slope down towards the house instead of away from it?
Are the paths encroaching on the level of the damp proof course -ther should be two bricks visible below the damp proof course (dpc).
Can you see the dpc?
Does the render bridge the dpc / is it in contact with the ground?
Is masonry painted this can makes walls more prone to damp.
Are trickle vents fitted to window frames?
Is the garden boggy? Speak to neighbours / ask questions?
Is the mortar to bricks grey in colour - this could be black ash mortar prone to corroding anything metal within it.
Are lintels eroded / cracked / corroded?
Is any feature stonework eroded / cracked?
Are double glazed windows misted / failed?
Are door thresholds affective?
Are there extensions / loft conversions? If so when built / is there both Planning and Building Regulation permission for these?
What is the condition of outbuildings?
Does the pitch of roof coverings seem low?
Are there asbestos roofs / gutters / tiles / slate?
What are the neighbours / traffic like ? - go back at night / weekends. Is there any history of flooding from drains / sea / rivers / off surrounding land?
Are there drillings to walls indicative of wall tie / cavity insulation work? Ask if the cavity walls have been insulated after the property was built and if so with what material / any guarantee?
Ask if cavity wall ties have been addressed including isolation / removal of any large section ties. Are there large trees encroaching on the property? Are the garden walls settled - this could be a sign of previous house / drain problems - what are the condition of boundary walls / fences ? Are they clearly defined - ask neighbours has there been any hassle over boundaries / disputes etc. Look at air bricks - are these clear / adeqaute in number - do solid floor extensions block original location of air vents to timber floors which could lead to decay.
Internal
Ask if any treatments such as dpc works / woodworm treatments / re-plastering / insulation and if so any guarantees? Ask if the roof was re-covered. Look for cracks to wall plaster / ceiling plaster. Check for smells of mushrooms (decay) / smokers (redecoration) cat / dog / human pee (nightmare to remove smell). Ask if the water / gas mains are lead or modern re-placement. Ask when re-wired / boiler serviced - do they have certificates? Look at the general condition of wiring within loft voids / sub floor voids? Is it it pinned to timbers or trailing loosely? Look at fuseboard - is it a modern consumer unit? Check meter cupboard for woodworm. Look under sinks / at cistern pipes - is there evidence of wiring earth bonding metal water pipes?
Look for mould - are there extractor fans to kitchen / bathroom? If so how long do these overrun when turned off? Try things like shower / taps, open and close windows. Open close all doors to see if binding.

If timber ground floors do these shake at all underfoot indicative of decay / woodworm? Do floors slope / rise / sink? Are ceilings cracked / sagging? Does the wall plaster sound hollow when you tap it?
Any brown staining around chimney breasts including upper floors?

Go up in the roof voids - look for moisture ingress / daylight / is there felt under the slates / tiles? Is there debris on the ceilings under any insulation? What is the state of the chimney stack brickwork within the roof voids? Are the roof timbers such as purlins cracked / sagging ? Is the roof coid well ventilated? Look for woodworm / wasp nests / birds nests / signs of mouse / rodent droppings / any evidence of bat droppings within roof voids? How well are roof voids insulated?

Lift the edge of carpets with owners permission - especially behind toilets - most common site for woodworm. With owners permission put the damp meter into suspended timber ground floors / skirting / base of door frames / base of stairs check moisture content. Sample wall surfaces with damp meter. Ask if any foil backed wallpaper lining used which could affect readings of meter. If areas are covered up be suspicious especially laminate / tiled / feature floors and wall claddings / dry linings. If loft conversion check for fire safety alarms / means of escape / stairs / floors / insulation.
If walls have been removed look for cracks, ask about permissions to remove such walls i.e. Building Regulations.
Ask if there is access under timber suspended ground floors - if so can you / your competant friend go under and look - look for decay / woodworm - sample moisture of timbers / look for timber debris on oversite / look if oversite wet / flooded / even if dry ask whether the oversite gets wet during winter months / prolonged rain. If solid floors still have a look - does these read damp / are they cracked / is there salt coming through the solid floor? Are there thin tiles on the solid floor that could contain asbestos?

Are the coal fireplaces still in use? If fireplaces blocked up check for dampness / degraded plaster.
Are there polystrene tiles fitted / is there conti-board to walls? (re fire hazard both cases) Are ceilings artexed (re asbestos)? Ask about any history of settlement / has there been any treatment for such i.e. underpinning / is there warranty for such?

If there is a cellar is there any guaranteed structural waterproofing? Ask / look for signs to see if the cellar ever floods / ventilation of the cellar? Be suspicious of dry lining / floor coverings within cellar, meter all areas.

The list goes on and on but hope the above is better than nothing as a starting point - of course the above sounds easy but it is also so very easy for the layperson to miss things that may be really important and you cannot get away from the fact that with many of these things you really need to know what you are looking at to know how serious they are and hence why people pay me to visit properties and write detailed reports about the nitty gritty of what is going on with a property rather than as many Chartered Surveyors do in simply describing it and churning out vague comments, then asking for others to go in and do reports to cover their backside - hope this helps - kindest regards David Aldred Indpendent damp, timber and wall tie surveyor.