Can Landlord Dictate who Provides your Energy?

Wee_Willy_Harris

GDB2222 wrote: »

It takes me an hour's driving to get to the flat and back. Then I have to scrabble around to find the meter numbers. These have probably changed because the tenant has installed a key meter, but in any case it's not the sort of thing most landlords would ordinarily keep a record of. Then a few minutes to find out how to find the energy supplier, then some phone calls. Typically 15 mins on hold, and I think it's 4 calls needed. So, 2 minutes is nonsense, but 3 hours or so is about right. That's what I mean by 'best part of a day' but if you want to nit-pick that's your prerogative, but my point is that it's a PITA for the LL, which it undoubtedly is.

I've never even considered charging a tenant for this, but if any landlord were to try do so he would need to keep a precise log of the time taken. If it really only took 2 minutes, there wouldn't be an issue, would there?

BTW, the OFT guidance on this is not law, and I don't think this particular point has been decided by a court yet.

Where DO I start?

Drive to the flat to check the meter?
Why not check it on the exit inspection? Or even the next viewing? Or just keep good records? Again, your incompetence should not be a penalty to your tenant. Your a landlord and you need to start acting like one.

Then a few minutes to find out how to find the energy supplier? Well, it's the same sourceevery time, so perhaps your admin needs to be improved. Again, hardly the tenants fault. But, if you can't be bothered to keep reasonable records, just google "who is my energy supplier" and up pops all the info you need. Last time I did it, google reliably tell me it took 0.27 seconds!

then some phone calls.?
Well, 2 to be precise. One for gas, one for electricity.

Typically 15 mins on hold?
Nope, I've always got straight through, but maybe I'm just lucky... or something?

In fact, the whole process is both simple and quick. I suggest that ant PITA you are suffering is largely of your own making rather than your tenants.

Plan and organise, dear boy. But don't blame others for your self imposed chaos.

tbs624

GDB2222 wrote: »

It takes me an hour's driving to get to the flat and back. Then I have to scrabble around to find the meter numbers.

But you'd presumably be visiting the property around changeover time anyway, or asking someone else to do so on your behalf?

GDB2222 wrote: »

These have probably changed because the tenant has installed a key meter, but in any case it's not the sort of thing most landlords would ordinarily keep a record of.

Maybe we should have a straw poll on that assertion - many LLs do store this sort of info, precisely because it makes matters so much simpler to deal with

BTW, the OFT guidance on this is not law, and I don't think this particular point has been decided by a court yet.

You're right that the OFT is guidance but I reckon that anyone who did choose to test ithe matter in court would find the OFTs views upheld. It's clearly likely to be detrimental to a T to be restricted to one energy supplier of the LLs choosing, when its the T who pays the utility bills and yet s/he is barred from "shopping around" for the best deal.

It's not dissimilar to LLs seeking to make Ts take out a specific insurance policy for the duration of the tenancy and that one has also been flagged up by the OFT as having the potential to be held to be an unfair term.

As I said in a much earlier thread on this issue, its strange how LLs expect to be able to say to a utility provider " sorry you have an unpaid bill from the tenancy at my property - it is however nothing to do with me as the T was responsible for the utilities", yet seek to simultaneously exert control over the contractual relationship between T and provider by restricting choice.

sashadavis

I've had the same issues with my estate agency, who "recommended" me and my partner use Spark energy. Turns out that not only do they have the worst customer service ratings on any review sites ... they are also the most expensive. If we had been savvy enough, maybe we would have checked out all the prices and tariffs when we first moved in, but we were so excited when we did move in that we trusted whatever they said. BAD IDEA! They get commission and kick backs for "recommending".

dodger1

dodger1 wrote: »

DrScotsman wrote: »

You not being bothered doesn't have much relevance, in my next two posts I substantiated pretty well that it is unfair in law.[/QUOTE

For me it is relevant because I agree to abide by it.

DrScotsman wrote: »

If it were as simple as "you agreed to the terms" then how come the bank charges case went through *three* courts?

Answer: It's not.

You may be happy with the term, but not every tenant will be. And when the landlord goes "What bill? I didn't see a bill! You must be mistaken :O. £50 Ka-ching" then the law is in place so that the Landlord does not achieve unjust profits.

For me it's about standards. If I agree to the terms and conditions prior to signing then I'm not going to change my mind afterwards. I've given my word and that stands, that's the rule I live by. If I don't agree with a term I'll try to get it removed, if that won't be done I move on. That is why it's simple for me.

DVardysShadow

Sarsie wrote: »

Do we have to have personal derrisions in here? It was just a suggestion for exploration, there's no need to be offhand.

If being the sort of person who looks at a problem and starts looking for a more acceptable solution civily and politely makes me not cut out to do business with in your opinion then ok, I shalln't interrupt your business any further.

I wish you much plain sailing in life.

As i see it, WWH was just presenting some of the potential unintended consequences and dumping them in your lap. I am all for considering unintended consequences.

franklee

dodger1 wrote: »

For me it's about standards. If I agree to the terms and conditions prior to signing then I'm not going to change my mind afterwards. I've given my word and that stands, that's the rule I live by. If I don't agree with a term I'll try to get it removed, if that won't be done I move on. That is why it's simple for me.

Doesn't that rather depend where you live and how much choice there is. Round here there's very little in the way of direct lets and only four main agents so a tenant's choice is limited over terms as each agent uses their own tenancy agreement. That said I do read the agreement and walk from the worst ones but it's simply not possible IMO for a tenant to get a 100% fair one. I've not come across an agent who will modify their tenancy agreement as yet.

dodger1

franklee wrote: »

Doesn't that rather depend where you live and how much choice there is. Round here there's very little in the way of direct lets and only four main agents so a tenant's choice is limited over terms as each agent uses their own tenancy agreement. That said I do read the agreement and walk from the worst ones but it's simply not possible IMO for a tenant to get a 100% fair one. I've not come across an agent who will modify their tenancy agreement as yet.

I live in Southampton and I have to say absolutely honestly that I've never read a tenancy agreement that I had any problem with. I've only had to read three and each one in my eyes was 100% fair. Now I agree that other people may in their eyes find a problem and that makes these things a personal choice. There are good landlords and there are good tenants. What area do you live in?

Wee_Willy_Harris

Your not reading them properly then!

dodger1

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

Your not reading them properly then!

I most certainly am. As I said it's a personal thing. What I find perfectly fair you may find unfair. My agreement has 15 pages of terms and conditions which I have read and checked and there is not one unfair one for me. In all honesty I was probably expecting something to raise it's ugly head but I was very pleasantly surprised. Maybe I'm lucky but I have had no problems with agents or landlords.

<sebb>

dodger1 wrote: »

I most certainly am. As I said it's a personal thing. What I find perfectly fair you may find unfair. My agreement has 15 pages of terms and conditions which I have read and checked and there is not one unfair one for me. In all honesty I was probably expecting something to raise it's ugly head but I was very pleasantly surprised. Maybe I'm lucky but I have had no problems with agents or landlords.

I think I'd say you were extremely luck then. I've rarely found one that didn't have an unfair term in it. Terms such as requiring redirection of all LL mail indefinitely within 7 days or financial penalties for each piece of mail (regardless of loss to the landlord), terms requiring full professional clean at end of tenancy regardless of the state of the property on entry, terms requiring full repainting of property regardless of the state of the property on entry, terms requiring any deposit dispute to go to arbitration with the LA at the cost of the tenant before any court proceedings could be envoked. The list goes on. The only ones I ever had enforced on me was the full professional clean on exit despite the check out report saying the place was in better condition on exit, which was also the one with the arbritration. Because of this (arbitration was £80 ph plus VAT), and because I didn't know my rights, I let them take a huge deduction from my deposit which they were not entitled to.